In this episode, we dive deep into the often overlooked but crucial topic of tire selection. Our host, John Rush, is joined by engineer and producer Luke Cashman to debunk common misconceptions about tires, traction laws, and wheel alignments. Whether you’re driving a heavy SUV or a light compact car, understanding the right tire choice can affect everything from safety to cost efficiency. Tune in to gain insights on making informed decisions when purchasing tires, and avoid the pitfalls of skimping on your vehicle’s only contact with the road.
SPEAKER 04 :
This is Drive Radio, The Extra Mile, with your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome to another edition of Drive Radio The Extra Mile. And we’ve done several episodes now, and I appreciate each and every one of you listening. Thank you, by the way, for the suggestions on what topics we should cover during this roughly one hour that we have on Saturdays from 3 to 4. If you’re listening for the first time, keep reminding all of you that we do this every Saturday from 3 to 4. We do record. the extra mile a little bit earlier in the week. So my point there is there may be some events, something that’s happened that we don’t know fully about on the day of recording, and this show is not meant to be a call-in live program like Drive Radio is from 10 to 1 on Saturday. So if you’re listening to this, we do this show. We record this show a little bit earlier in the week. Luke Cashman is my engineer and producer, and we do this earlier in the week. But one more time. Please, any of you that have questions or things you want us to delve into more, that’s what this Extra Mile program is about. We here have the ability to get into some things that we don’t always have the time to do on Drive Radio. For example, today we’re going to talk about tires. Luke’s going to join me on a few things here because a lot of misconceptions, by the way, when it comes to tires, traction laws, how wheel alignments even can affect certain things and so on. And I’ll do my best to get all of this in in a one-segment episode because there is a lot to talk about, and I mean that sincerely. This is one of the, especially this time of the year, this is one of those topics that comes up routinely. You know, what should I do when it comes to tires? How do I stay safe, especially in the winter months? Now, I think tires are one of those things that are important all year long, not just in the winter months, but summer months as well. And there is big differences in tires. I know a lot of people think, well, I just want the cheapest thing I can find. And by the way, I get the fact that everybody is budget conscious. As you guys all know, I have a very large fleet. Tires are one of the things that I invest a lot of money in on an annual basis. On the same token, what I’ve learned through the years is you really do, especially with tires, get what you pay for. Now, that doesn’t mean that you’ve got to buy the Cadillac of tires, if you would, to get the best of tires. On the same token, you don’t want to buy the cheapest tire that’s out there because, frankly, you’re, in a lot of cases, going to get the cheapest wear. In other words, you’re not really saving money when it’s all said and done. Because the one thing folks forget about as well is they say, well, you know, okay, let’s say I cut my – you know, the tires – Cost half as much and I get half the life while I’m saving money. Well, not if you include mounting, balancing, the setup of, and so on. No, you’re not. Because in some cases, depending upon the car that you have, that whole mounting and balancing could be $100 or more. So, no, you really can’t use that formula and say, if I pay half and get half miles, I’m saving money. No, you’re not, because those other costs start to get involved. And as I go through the program today, you’ll learn what certain tires do and don’t do. And, again, I’ll explain this as best I can. Now, one other thing I should mention when it comes to the extra mile, and something that some of you have already caught on to. If there’s ever a segment and we’re talking about something and there’s further questions that you have on it, you can always send us a text message or an e-mail. Text line is 307-200-8222. So 307-200-8222. You can always follow up and say, hey, I heard you talking on the extra mile about such and such. I have an additional question. Okay, great. By the way, in some cases, I might do another segment based on that question. In other cases, you can send me a longer email. I would also tell you this, that if you’re looking to get more in-depth information with a particular conversation where we need to go back and forth and maybe you’re looking for some diagnostic information and things like that email me that’s always a better way to do it because it’s easier for me to keep track of things versus a bunch of text messages that frankly all run together and i don’t know names with texts by the way unless you tell me what your name is i don’t know who you are in a text message i know you’re a listener but i don’t know your name and i sometimes like to put a name with a conversation because i think it helps at the end of the day so You can always send me an email. Just go john, J-O-H-N, at drive-radio.com. Drive-radio.com. All right, so before we get started, Luke, I’m going to involve you here for a moment. Questions on tires from your perspective. Now, for all of you listening, Luke has been around KLC for quite some time, knows me, knows all of our programs, all of that. He’s not new to any of this. But on the car side, Luke, what would you, because you’ve been involved in some auto repair and some things along those lines in your world because of where you live and what you do. But on a scale of 1 to 10, where are you at in your skill set from, you know, 1 being I know nothing about a car, 10 I know everything.
SPEAKER 02 :
I’d say maybe about a five. I can do all my own general maintenance. I was going to say that. I can do some a bit more advanced stuff just because my father and my brother are all very involved.
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Who I know very well.
SPEAKER 02 :
I will say, it’s funny you mention that, out of all the things my father will do on a vehicle, He’ll strip the whole motor down piece by piece and put it back together. He doesn’t do his own tires. Doesn’t do his own mounting. He doesn’t do his own balancing. You see a lot of people who do a whole lot of their own car stuff, but they’re not doing tires. I mean, it requires a lot of precision, you know, getting all that off.
SPEAKER 06 :
Correct. No, and even the whole balancing aspect of things, and I’ll get into some of that as to how some things get balanced first, how some tires get balanced versus others. There’s different machines on the market and so on. Luke made a great point just now. It’s really hard, even if you have the skill set, but not the right equipment to even do the mounting and balancing, because if you don’t get everything right, there’s no sense even putting a new set of tires on. It goes back to wheel alignment, some of the things that we’ll get into later. as well okay so and by the way what luke just said he was spot on i was going to say luke’s a five to six just what i know of him and his skill set and his family and so on i was going to say the exact same thing so he’s he’s right in line okay so knowing that and knowing that luke has Not more knowledge than a lot of other people, but on a scale of 1 to 10, he’s right in the middle. And some of you would probably consider yourself in that same vein, although some of you probably would say, listen, I’m a 1 or a 2. I know nothing. I have to have somebody. That’s why I listen to the radio. That’s why I listen to you. I need advice on all sorts of things, and I rely on the advice that you give to make sure that I’m doing things properly when it comes to my vehicle, maintenance, buying the right car, owning the right car, and all of that. So, Luke. What’s one of the first things when it comes to tires that maybe you’ve always had a question that people have never been able to, in your world, according to you, have never really been able to answer correctly?
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s a good one. That’s a good question for me to ask a question about. I’d say, especially living in Colorado, there’s the question of weather and then the type of terrain you’re driving on. So is it going to be more efficient for the average Joe, 9 to 5, to get all-season tires to just cover the summer and winter commute? Or… Is it worth having a set of summer tires and a set of winter tires to kind of like reduce wear on both? What’s going to be the most cost effective method to ensure you’re not like totally blowing your whole wallet while still trying to be safe?
SPEAKER 06 :
Great question, and that’s why I wanted to do this program today because, by the way, the question Luke just asked, and just so you all know, we don’t prime this show effort. Luke and I don’t have like a sit-down conversation about here’s what we’re going to talk about. Luke, here’s what I want you to ask. No, no, this is all raw. I like raw shows. I already have a hard enough time recording a show because I like talking to the audience and having that interaction. You all know that. I am not the best at doing prerecorded shows because I like that interaction from you all that are listening now. But this was the way this show was meant to be from the get go. So I’m doing my best to make this work for all of you. And I hope I’m succeeding, by the way. I think a lot of you have already sent some text messages and things back in where you enjoy what we’re doing. So I think so far so good. So, no, I did not prime Luke on this. My point is, I think what Luke just asked is a lot of what a lot of other people asked. either ask or are afraid to ask. In other words, they walk into a tire store, and because they don’t have the right handshake, it’s kind of like going to buy a gun, you don’t have the right handshake, so you really don’t even know what question to ask, and you don’t know what kind of response you’re going to get, so you just sort of walk in blindly, and you say, I need tires. And then you expect whatever that salesperson is to guide you through that entire process. What we want to try to do during this roughly 55 minutes or so is help you so when you walk in, You’re more educated on what you’re actually looking for. And then if that salesperson is in line with you, great. If not, well, honestly, you’ve got multiple places to shop. If you’re feeling pressured one way or another to buy something that you know isn’t the right fit for you and your vehicle, then by all means, go somewhere else. And that’s what we’re trying to do with our program. Now, I will also say this. We have a few of our affiliates online. our shop affiliates that we have on drive radio that sell tires although a lot of them don’t sell tires so we don’t have a lot of skin in the game with tires is my point and even the shops that i have that do sell tires it is not their major money making thing that they do they do it as a convenience to the customers that they have to our listeners it’s not by any means one of the ways that they make a lot of money so the question luke just asked In Colorado, and for a lot of you that are listening, in other states. I know we’ve got folks that listen. I’ve got Joe in Jersey. We’ve got Jeff up in Montana. We’ve got folks that listen all the way down in the Panhandle, Oklahoma, Texas, Dallas even. We’ve got them all over, okay? Keep in mind. This answer is for our quad-state region that this normal signal goes out to. So I’m talking Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, Nebraska. So those four states, this is going to be pretty true across the board in the four states that we’re talking about. You get into some of the southern states and so on. You know what? You guys have a totally different set of circumstances that you run off of all year long. And a lot of what we might talk about in regards to our winter driving in Colorado will be way different than what you guys have in those states. So keep that in mind. because occasionally I’ll get messages from folks in other states saying, well, what about X? And I get it. I’m covering, in this case, our four-state region that we have here that our KLZ signal reaches to. So Luke’s question basically is, okay, what tire do I really run in winter, depending upon the vehicle that I have and so on? And that’s where I want to start. In my opinion, A lot of when it comes to what you buy for tires does depend on the vehicle that you’re driving, and this is not what you’ll hear from most tire salespeople. Most tire salespeople, not bashing them by any means, but a lot of them work off of commission. A lot of them work off of what we call SPFs. They work off of incentives that even certain tire manufacturers might have at that time, and the list goes on. In other words, there’s incentive for them to put a particular tire on your car that that, by the way, probably will work fine for you, but may not be your best choice because they have another incentive going on. And it’s not taking anything away from them. It’s just the way the world works. And by the way, it works that way in every product you can imagine, from pharmaceuticals on down. OK, it’s very well known that the salespeople involved, they’re getting prodded and pushed a little bit from others. I put others plural because lots of others on what they should be pushing at any given time when it comes to a product. And again, I’m not saying anything wrong with this. It’s just how it is. And you need to know that going in and looking and shopping at the certain things that you’re buying. Now, one thing I want to get out of the way really quick is when it comes to some of the big box stores that sell tires. Costco, Sam’s Club. We’ll start there. Because they sell a lot of tires. And by the way, nothing against their tires. I’ve even at times recommended to certain listeners to go buy a tire there. But what I want to make sure people are clear on is it’s hard to compare apples to apples. when it comes to tires sold by either Sam’s Club or Costco. And here’s why. So Costco, for example, they’ll go out to Michelin. We’ll just throw their name out because it’s a top brand. And they will say, okay, Mr. Michelin, Mr. Michelin man, I want this tire in these sizes. With this particular tread pattern, which, by the way, will be unique to Costco, you won’t find that tread pattern anywhere else. It will be slightly different. So even if you went and bought an all-season tire in a Michelin whatever from another Michelin dealer, it will not be the exact same tire that Costco sells because that’s the way Costco differentiates and, in some cases, cuts cost. to make that tire less money from them than what it would be going down the street to the local Goodyear, Michelin, whatever dealer it might be. So I want to make sure I get that out there because a lot of people say, well, man, I can buy that same tire at Costco. Well, no, you really can’t. It’s not the same tire. It’s close, and it may very well work for your vehicle, but you have to be really careful when you say, I can go buy the same tire because what you just said is I can go buy the exact same thing at Costco. No, you can’t. In a lot of cases, it’s not the exact same tire. Now, in some cases, it is. And you’ll know by looking if it is, in fact, that particular tire. But in a lot of cases, they will go out and do requests for proposal for, hey, I want a million. And by the way, I’m not exaggerating when I say that. I want a million of this tire made for all of my stores coast to coast, including Canada. And I want this type of deal. I want it for this price. And by the way, that manufacturer will say, OK, we can do that or no, we can’t. And that’s where some of that negotiation from Costco and their buyers comes into that particular tire manufacturer. And at the end of the day, you end up with X tire that, no, it is not the same as that tire you would go down the street and buy from the Michelin store. OK, I just want to make sure we get that out of the way, because I hear that a lot that, hey, I can go buy the same tire. No, you can’t. You can buy a tire with the same dimensions, with similar tread compound and so on. But no, it is not in most cases the exact same tire. So first things first, what are you driving? And here’s why I say this. Do you have a front-wheel drive car? Is it a lighter front-wheel drive car? Is it a heavier front-wheel drive car? Do you have all-wheel drive? If so, what size all-wheel drive? What’s the horsepower ratings in a lot of these vehicles, by the way, that we’re talking about? Are you driving a full-size SUV? Is it a part-time, full-time, you know, four-wheel drive? Do you do any off-roading with said vehicle? I mean, we go down the list now. And this is where… it gets a little bit more difficult because one of the first things I always ask somebody when they’re asking me for tires is, what are you driving? And here’s why I ask that. In my opinion, but this is an opinion coming from somebody that’s been in the industry since I was about 10, and I’m 61 now, so do the math. So 50 years roughly I’ve been, and by the way, I’ve seen tires change immensely from where they were when I started in the industry in about 1976, 1977. No, I wasn’t very old, but I caught on really quickly. And, yes, tires have changed immensely since then and still are. A lot of change is still continuing to come out when it comes to tires. And this is the one thing where I always feel like people want to skimp on tires, and yet it is the one thing that keeps them on the road. It’s always amazing to me. And Luke’s in there, you know, nodding his head because you’re going to spend a bunch of money on a car. You have insurance, you get maintenance, you have all this other stuff. And yet the one thing that keeps you grounded, quote unquote, to the you know, to the road itself is tires. And yet for a lot of people, it will become the cheapest thing to go spend money on. Luke, to me, that one is baffling.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. I mean, you’re talking about that. I was just thinking, taking a road trip with my girlfriend. You’re driving cross-country, even across the state. What do you see piled up on the road, on the side of the road? Tires. Everywhere. Strips of them. Yep.
SPEAKER 06 :
Tires blown out every direction. That’s right. You see them coming off of 18-wheelers. You see them coming off of regular vehicles, coming off of trailers, and so on. Again, folks, it is the one thing that literally is your contact point to the road. And yet I see people constantly want to skimp on that tire and then wonder why either they’re not getting the gas mileage they should, they’re not getting the performance they would like, they’re not getting the durability they would like, they don’t have the traction that they would normally like to have and so on. So first things first, what vehicle are you driving? And here’s where I’m going with this. The lighter the vehicle… the more, in my opinion, the more aggressive your winter tire needs to be if you’re somebody that’s actually going to travel up, go skiing, and do things along those lines. Now, for those of you that are just traveling around town and you feel like, hey, on the day where we get a foot of snow, I don’t need to go anywhere. Okay, you know what? You’re a different candidate. You’re not somebody that’s driving your vehicle every day no matter what, no matter what the conditions are, because if you were, I would tell you to buy a different tire. So, again, first things first, what vehicle are you driving? What does it weigh? So the heavier the vehicle, honestly, you can get by with a little less aggressiveness on the tire because you have weight in your advantage that you don’t have in a lighter vehicle. So the heaviness of the vehicle really does matter. This, again, this is coming from me. This is my opinion. So what are you driving? Is it front-wheel drive, all-wheel drive? What’s the weight of the vehicle? Because even some of the light… All-wheel drive vehicles, I would still go more aggressive on tread pattern for winter driving just because you don’t have the weight that you would have on, let’s say, a Suburban. So, for example, do you need to run a more aggressive tire on an all-wheel drive Chevy Equinox as opposed to – and I’m using the Chevy line for the comparison. So you’ve got a Chevy Equinox on one end, which is kind of their smaller SUV, and I go all the way up to a Suburban. Can you get by with a less aggressive tire on a Suburban and still get everywhere you need to go versus the Equinox? Yes, you can. Why? Because the Suburban weighs almost twice what the Equinox does. I may be off a little bit in my weights, but I’m probably not that far off. So you can kind of gather from what I’m saying here that the heavier the vehicle, the less aggressive you have to be on tires. Not saying you can skimp. on that end of things, but you can be a little less aggressive and still get where you need to go. Now, one other thing that’s happening on a lot of the SUVs, true with even the small ones versus the large ones, and I had this question that came in the other day. This is kind of what prompted this whole conversation we’re having today. I had a listener say, listen, I’m now driving a, I think in this case, an Infiniti Q80. And it’s got X size tire on it, which, by the way, were 50 series tires. So the 50 series means they’re wide. So it doesn’t matter what the beginning number is. Doesn’t matter whether it’s a 18, 20, 22. The 50 is where you’re at when it comes to width. If you want to know how that works and the metric system on tires, just go Google it and look it up. I’m not going to go through that right now because that’s almost a conversation in and of itself. It’s best to just go look it up. It’ll give you all of the dimensions as to what one tire is versus another based upon all of the dimensions in that metric of the tire. A P265-45-16, for example, versus some other tire. You can figure what that is out on the Internet very easily. And most of the tire manufacturers will even get down to telling you, okay, for this specific tire, you have to dig into the website a little bit on this, on the manufacturer’s websites. But they’ll tell you specifically, here’s its diameter, here’s its width, here’s how the tread depth is, and so on. And by the way, it’s a great tool to look at one tire versus another, something I was going to cover today anyway. So if you’re comparing tires, go to the Internet. You can literally look at, you know, you go to Toyo’s website versus Goodyear’s website, and you can pull up a specific tire in Toyo, compare the exact same tire in Goodyear. And by the way, just because one says it’s 30 inches in diameter, one might be 29 1⁄2 and the other one might be 31 1⁄2. And I’m not exaggerating when I say that. Just because it’s the same size doesn’t mean that it’s exactly that same size. This is where you really have to go look at the manufacturer’s website and determine, especially for some of you off-road guys where you’re looking for a specific diameter tire, go look at that because there can be as much as an inch difference in the same size tire depending upon each manufacturer. And again, I’m not exaggerating when I say that. Go look it up and you’ll learn what I’m saying there. Here was the question, though. Hey, I’ve got this particular vehicle. It takes this particular size tire, and I think it was like a 50-22. And I’m looking at another vehicle, and it’s got this tire. And by the way, even though it was a smaller vehicle, it still was a 50-20. And I’m like, you’re not gaining a thing. In fact, you’re probably going to lose some because at least the Q80 is heavier. But his point was… With that 50-series tire, it floats on the snow, and yes, it does. It’s like a snowboard at that point. It’s not even a ski. It’s a snowboard. So, for example, when you look at – we’ll use the skiing example. When you’re wanting to go through all of the powder and float on top and have fun – I was watching a video the other day where a guy was teaching his young girl, must have been three or four years old, how to snowboard a black. I’m not exaggerating. I’m looking at this thing thinking I would be caught dead on that thing. But this little girl is going down this black slope with a snowboard. Perfect. Okay. That’s because a snowboard, by the way, is very forgiving because it actually floats on top of the snow. Well, guess what a wide tire does? Exactly that same thing. That’s why when you go out to sand dunes or things like that, you look for a very wide tire because it doesn’t sink into the sand. But we went opposite of that in the snow. Think snowboard versus cross-country skiing. Cross-country skier has a very little narrow ski that they use, A, because there’s less resistance. They can cut into the snow and they can actually go further than you could because you’re on flat level ground and you’re using your body’s momentum to actually ski with versus using the slope to push you downhill with gravity on a snowboard. But the snowboard, you want to float on top. The skis, you know, the cross-country skier wants to dig in a little, if you would, so that they’ve got the ability to glide on top of, in most cases, ice or whatever’s underneath so they can actually float along. The last thing a cross-country skier wants is to be in powder. Because they won’t go anywhere because they’re sinking down to the bottom because that narrow ski is getting them down to the bottom of the snow, not floating on top of the snow. So wide tires, this is for a lot of you guys that have performance cars, SUVs, and so on. The wider the tire, the less performance in snow there is. I don’t care how aggressive you get with the tread, it’s not going to work as well as a narrow tire. And by the way, that’s a problem that a lot of the newer SUVs have is because they’re coming with 50-series tires or so. And again, that wider tire is really a disadvantage when it comes to working in the snow. All right, let’s do this. I want to take a quick break. We’re going to come right back. Don’t forget our text line, 307-200-8222. And you can also send us an email, john at drive-radio.com. This is The Extra Mile right here on KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 03 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
This program was recorded earlier for broadcast at this time. No phone calls can be accepted.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right, welcome back. Drive Radio, The Extra Mile, talking about tires. And I’m doing my best to get all of this in. I know I’ve got roughly not even 40 minutes left to get all of this handled. We just went through basically tires, weight, the type of vehicle that you’re driving, and a lot of the larger and even some of the smaller. I gave an example a moment ago where this particular individual was looking at downsizing on an SUV because he thought that by going smaller, it would change the configuration of the tire and help him get to and from where he needs to go. He’s up in the mountains. It would get him to and from where he needs to go easier because it theoretically is a smaller vehicle and should have smaller tires. It didn’t. That 50 series, same exact tire width, not changing a thing. And by the way, it doesn’t matter even what the numbers are in front or behind. If it’s 50, it’s 50, it’s 50. It’s a wide tire. And the way that works is 50 is wider than 60, even though the numbers are smaller. So some of the performance cars have 20 series tires, super wide tires. You know, a lot of your performance cars, Corvettes and so on, they’ll have a 30 series tire on them. Super wide tire. Awful in rain and snow. Because you’re floating on top. Awful. So, at the end of the day… The last thing you want is that wide tire, especially when it comes to snow. In fact, in snow, narrower is better. Always. You’ll get better control, better traction, better steerability with narrower tires. Now, there’s a limitation, depending upon the vehicle you’re driving, as to how narrow you can go. Because you simply won’t find… tires and wheels that fit accordingly, even though you might be able to narrow things up a little bit, this is where I go back to the initial conversation. What are you driving? What vehicle are you driving? Because in that, in that end of itself, I guess is what I should say, has a big bearing upon how well that vehicle will perform in snow and rain.
SPEAKER 02 :
Talking about that, just as a personal example, because I never really put two and two together as much, I had two vehicles. When I first moved to Colorado, I had a 2009 Audi A4, which is a much heavier vehicle, all-wheel drive, bought all-season tires from Costco, handled the snow like a champ. I moved to 2008 Lexus IS250. Lighter by about 600 or 700 pounds. Same brand of all-season tires. I believe it’s also an all-wheel drive vehicle. Isn’t handling that snow nearly as well. I mean, a 700-pound difference alone is significant.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, and people think, what’s only 700 pounds? It’s only 500 pounds. That’s a lot, actually, when you start. That’s why in a pickup truck, for example, a lot of people put sandbags and do things like that in the back end. We’ll get into that a little bit later because, yeah, pickup trucks, generally speaking, especially the older ones, have less weight in the back. Now, the newer crew cabs and so on, they’ve got things to where they’re not near as light in the back end as they used to be because the trucks themselves have gotten bigger, fatter, wider, longer, heavier. I’m digressing, but point being… People have this misconception, oh, man, I want that wide, aggressive tire because, man, I’m going to go places. So you look at some of these lifted trucks, for example, and these guys will put these stupid, you know, they stick out from the sides and they’re these huge, like, you know, 22-inch wheels and tires. And they’re so stinking wide that, honestly, in a snowstorm, they might as well be driving a Subaru. You’d be better off driving a Subaru. Actually, you’d get farther in a Subaru than you would what they’re driving. But in their mind, they’re thinking, oh, I’ve got this big, huge, aggressive tire. I’m good. No, because the same principles apply with what I just said. It’s, for example, look at – let me think about it this way. So look at a – I’m trying to think here. So look at sand dregs. They actually do this, and some don’t know this, but there’s drag racing that happens on asphalt, which they use a nice wide slick that can get as much traction as possible. And in that case, you want as wide as you can get because the more you have on the ground, the better off you are. Now, on the sand sides of things, those guys will use an extremely wide tire with paddles. because they’re now trying to float on top and yet dig in at the same time to gain traction to go as fast as they can. And you guys have seen some of these. That is the opposite of what you want on snow. Because keep in mind, the traction in snow is down at the pavement level. Even if there’s ice on the pavement, you’re still getting more traction by getting down to pavement level than you are floating on top of the snow. So what Luke just said, It makes total sense, and I know I’m digressing just a little bit here, but reality is in Colorado, the vehicle matters, the width of the tire matters, and now I’m going to get into what some of the different designations are.
SPEAKER 02 :
I was just going to say, too, to add to that, a little bit you’re talking about the different vehicles they’re using for sand and for tracks. You look at how any vehicle designed for the snow is configured. Look at any snowmobile. It is all real thin, heavy tread, heavy vehicle. Yep.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yep. No, Luke’s spot on. So again, folks, going now to the different designation of tires, which this is where there’s a lot of confusion. You have regular highway tires. You then will have an all season or some cases they’ll call it an all weather tire. And then you have your winter tires with a snowflake. Now, the winter snowflake tires are going to be because they’re designed this way and have to be. They’re designed for snow. And by the way, they’ll do a winter tire in all different tire configurations, size configurations, I mean to say. So whether you’ve got that 50 Series tire I just said or a 70 Series tire, in some cases a 75 Series tire, which, again, 75 you would think is wider than a 50. It’s the opposite. It’s half, again, as wide as a 50 Series tire. Literally, it’s half as wide. So you can literally take those two tires, set them next to each other, and a 50 series will be twice as wide as a 70, 75 series tire is. And I know that doesn’t sound right. Numerically, it doesn’t make any sense. But if you look at how the metric system in tires are, it will. So go look that up. I’m not getting into that right now. Those of you that are listening, you know how to do that. Now, here’s the other thing that happens when it comes to the nomenclature on the tire. So the sign on the tire itself. With the winter tire… your longevity drops because your tread pattern is going to be more aggressive and the compound will be softer. Now, again, some people are thinking, wait a minute, John, this is opposite of everything I would think of. You would think that in the snow I would want an aggressive tread, but I’d want a really hard tire to really bite into the snow. No. Again, it’s the opposite of our thought process. It’s that moldable type tire, malleable, I guess I should say, tire, that’s then getting down to that bottom surface I was mentioning a moment ago that then has the ability, like think of a lizard climbing a tree. The reason a lizard can climb a tree is, which we can’t, is because it’s got all sorts of little suction cup things on the bottom of its feet that allow it to climb right up a tree. It literally can zip right up, right back down. You kind of want to do the same thing with your tires on snow and ice, and that’s where that softer compound tire that’s in a winter tire gives you that ability, like that lizard, to grip onto that surface that’s down below that a hard tire won’t do. Think of the hard tire being a human trying to climb the same pole. The lizard scurries right up, and we have to have devices to help us climb that pole because there’s no way we’re getting up with our normal hands and feet. Lyman carry boots with spikes, and they’ve got the belt that wraps around it, and they can climb it that way, but they still can’t climb it even as fast as a lizard can. Think of a hard compound tire versus a soft compound tire in much the same way. We want that soft compound to be able to get down to the bottom, to get down to the pavement level, if you would, to get where the traction is and be able to hang on. That’s why you’ll see extra siping. You’ll see tread patterns that look a little bit different. And you’ll notice on the side of the tire where it gives you the compound rating, it will be a softer rated tire. Now, this is where it gets kind of pro and con. With the softer compound means less wearability. Because when you’re running that tire on straight pavement and there’s no snow or ice there, well, because it’s softer, it’s going to wear faster. Think of in the old days when we all used pencils and erasers. Now, young kids don’t know what a pencil and eraser is, but us old-timers know what pencils and erasers are. Back in the day, everybody wanted the softer or softest eraser you could find. Why? Because it actually erased better than a hard eraser would. And you all know what I’m talking about. Well, tire wear is exactly the same way. You took a nice, soft compound eraser back in the day, and man alive, you could run through that eraser in no time. Take a hard compound eraser, it would still erase, not quite as well, but it lasted twice, three times, four times longer than that soft compound eraser did. Tires are exactly the same way. It is no difference in what I just explained, which, quite honestly, I don’t know if I’ve ever heard anybody explain tire compound the way I just did, but it is very much the same way. So the softer the tire… the faster it’s going to wear. But the softer it is, the better grip you have. That’s why performance tires that guys will run on, you know, you take that 30-series tire I was mentioning earlier, and you put a nice soft compound to it, and guess what? You can go drive anywhere you want to as fast as you want to because that thing’s sticking like glue. But they’re wearing fast. I mean, those particular tires, and this is not an exaggeration, you take a performance car like that with that tire, with that compound, you’re lucky to get 5,000 miles out of it. And I’m not exaggerating. And I own some of those cars, so I know a little bit about that. And you’re not getting 40,000 miles out of those tires. They’re not made to go 40,000 miles. These are weekend getaway type cars. Drive them hard. Do some things along those lines. Maybe even go to the track. Get in a few laps. But even in that case, you’re bringing extra tires. Because that’s how fast you’re going to wear them out. Because they’re designed to stick. Because they’re a soft compound tire. So… Again, working through all of this, and I should have started with this, and Luke did, what are you doing? Are you skiing every weekend? Are you skiing once a year? Do you have a cabin that you go to periodically? Are you somebody that hunting fishes a lot? Do you do a lot of off-roading? Are you a guy that just wants to be prepared for whatever weather might come your way no matter what, and you’re going to be that guy that’s prepared, period? Okay, great. If you’re of that nature where you’re up in the mountains a lot, you want to be that guy that’s prepared for anything, honestly, you’re a person that should have two sets of tires. And there’s something to be said even cost-wise in having those two sets. Have that soft compound winter-type tire that’s really aggressive in the snow and run it from 1st of December through the 1st of April. Okay? And the reason I say that is because typically before that we have really wet snows and you’re still fine with your other tire. Even later than that, same situation. You can gauge when to take tires on and off based upon the weather, the patterns and such that we have. But if you’re really somebody that wants to be that… hey, I’m going anywhere, I’ve got the right vehicle, and I’m going anywhere I want, anytime I want, great. Go put a set of, you know, BlizzX or something like that on that car or that vehicle, run that in the wintertime, and then come summer, change them back out. Because the summer tire, which, by the way, is now completely the opposite of what we’re talking about. In fact, one thing that’s in my notes that I didn’t even mention, summer tires are literally designed to only be operated 45 degree plus temperatures. And so those performance cars I was just mentioning, if you take one of those cars out in the winter and it’s, say, 25, 28 degrees out, you will notice that those tires do not want to stick very well at all. And again, I’ve owned these cars. I’ve driven those cars with those types of tires. And they’re a handful when it’s cold out. And the reason is because of what I just said. They don’t want to stick under about 50 degrees Fahrenheit. And if you think about where our roadways can get, you know, we’ve got a 25-degree day. Well, pavement’s probably 25 degrees. It’s doubtful it’s much warmer. Now, if it’s sunny and we’ve had a little bit of, you know, keep in mind that’s only where it’s sunny you get into a shaded spot. It’s even going to be cooler. And I’ve seen many a performance car whereby, you know, they’re up in the mountains, they’re driving, it’s a cooler day or whatever, and it’s nice and warm in one area. But all of a sudden, they head to the north side of the mountain, and guess what? It’s not. And you’ve even watched these guys on videos take a spill, if you would, around those corners, and the reason for that is what I just said. That corner’s colder than what was leading into it. And these guys don’t comprehend that, oh, man, it’s only 30 degrees outside. Yeah, I’m sticking really well on where the pavement’s 50 degrees because the sun’s shining, but on the north side of the mountain, it’s not. And it could be as much of a 20 degree or more variance in temperature. So point being, summer tires are only meant to be used at about 50 degrees plus. Winter tires, by the way, they’ve got soft compound. They will be pliable pretty much all the way down. I mean, I don’t want to say, you know, keep in mind, the colder it gets, the harder the tire will become, period. Because the cold affects it. It’s also why right now a lot of you listening have probably this week encountered a light on the dash. Your TPMS light, tire pressure monitoring system, probably came on and said, hey, dummy, add air. Well, because when it gets colder, that air shrinks, if you would, quote unquote, the pressure drops. And the reality is you now need to add some pressure in the wintertime. So for those of you who probably even should have started off the program today saying, check your air pressure before you do anything else because everything has dropped with it being cold this week from what it was even a week ago. How do I know that? I had one car where the light came on. Folks, I’m just like you all, and I go through the same things, and I have the same life, and I’m just as busy as the rest. And, yeah, sometimes you forget to check them. And that light came on. It’s like, okay, well, I better go fill them all up. And you do. The light goes off, and off you go. So that’s one of those things. Now, I will also say this. If you’re really looking for extra traction, less pressure is better than more. Again, going back to the whole soft compound versus hard compound, that’s why a lot of – most people don’t know this. That’s why a lot of the race car tires and things like that, believe it or not, some of those tires run at 8, 10, 12 PSI. You take some of the drag cars, they don’t run much more air than that. They want grip. They want that tire folding to the pavement itself, you know, wrinkling to the pavement, and they don’t want a lot of pressure. High pressure means less traction. The same is true with your tire in the winter or even the summer driving. The more pressure, your fuel economy is going to go up, but your traction is going to go down. Same is true whether you’re off-roading, whether you’re in the sand, no matter what. Less pressure means more traction, but less fuel economy because you’re getting more grip on the road. More grip on the road means more resistance, meaning fuel economy drops. All right. That’s a great segue, by the way. We’ll take one more break. We’ll come back, get things finished up. Don’t forget, again, you’re listening to Drive Radio, The Extra Mile. Our text line, 307-282-22. You can send us an email as well. Go to john, J-O-H-N, at drive-radio.com.
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SPEAKER 04 :
This program was recorded earlier for broadcast at this time. No phone calls can be accepted.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right, last segment here for Drive Radio, The Extra Mile. Myself, Luke Cashman, joining me today. He’s my engineer producer and talking about tires. And there’s a lot of misconceptions about tires. One of the things that I hear quite often, and Luke can probably attest to this, is, oh, all seasons work for me. I’m good. Well, maybe. Keep in mind, we now have in Colorado traction laws. whereby all season may not be good enough for your vehicle depending upon the vehicle that you’re driving. So, for example, I-70 from Dotsero to Morrison, that’s mile markers 133 to 259. This applies to all passenger vehicles during an active enforcement. Number one, traction law, Code 15. You must have one of the following, 316ths minimum tread depth, and an all-wheel drive or four-wheel drive or mud and snow rated tires or winter tires. That’s the three-peak mountain snowflake symbol. All vehicles must comply, even all-wheel drive SUVs. Two, passenger vehicle chain law. It’s triggered during a severe winter storm. You must have chains or auto socks or manufacturer-approved alternative traction devices. If you do not, it’s $100 for not having proper equipment, $500 if you block the roadway, or $1,000 if you block the roadway and cause closures. Huge, huge fines. And you look at that 50-car pileup we just had roughly a week ago, that’s the reason why. So, again, the traction laws come into effect. You need at least three-sixteenths minimum tread depth, which, by the way, is quite a bit. That’s a quarter tread depth, and that’s really on the minimum side. Okay? All-wheel drive or four-wheel drive. So, remember what I just said. You can’t go up there with a front-wheel drive vehicle in a traction law event. Make sure I say that again. You cannot go up the interstate in a front-wheel drive vehicle no matter what’s on it. You must have 316s tread depth and an all-wheel drive or a four-wheel drive with mud and snow or winter tires. And that applies to everybody driving, period. So if you run up that in a rented Mustang, you’re going to get that big fine. So people think, oh, I’ll be fine. I’ve got plenty of tread depth. Do you? Here’s my rule of thumb, by the way, when it comes to tread depth heading into winter. Half. I want half. So if that tire started off with, you know, this is talking about 316s. Let’s say that that tire started off with roughly, oh, I don’t know, half inch of tread depth. I want at least a quarter inch before I, you know, or I’m replacing tires. Another secret, maybe not a secret, most of you probably know this, most, well, every tire I’ve looked at of late for the past several decades has a wear bar. If you look at the tire, even sitting there, it’ll have a wear bar in about six or eight places, maybe even more depending upon the tire design. But it’ll have a wear bar, meaning you’ll see a little bit of a raise in the rubber down at the base of the tire, meaning that when you can no longer see the wear bar, it’s time for tires. That’s why the manufacturers put them there. You don’t even have to measure anything. When it’s to that point, you need tires. Now, if you’re seeing the wear bar and it’s really close to the surface of the tire, you need tires. Period. Now, if you’re somebody where you feel, well, I could run those in the summer. I’ll put some winter tires on. I might be able to get another summer out of these tires. You know what? Knock your socks off. If you feel like you want to do that, more power to you. Just remember that if you don’t have an extra set of wheels, which a lot of guys will do, they’ll run an extra set of wheels. But if you don’t have an extra set of wheels, you’re paying to mount and dismount every fall, every spring, which in some cases, again, can be $100 or more. So do the math. On how you want that to work out and whether you want to buy one tire that works all year round or whether you want to buy tires that work part of the year. And by the way, your performance increases because even this is another thing you have to factor in. Those highway tires that you run in the summer months, your fuel economy will increase with that tire over the all seasons or the mud tires or the snow tires rather. And some of you would think, well, it can’t be that much. Oh, man, sometimes it can be two miles to the gallon. So if you take the majority of your driving in summer months and think, well, wait a minute, I can take these aggressive tires off, get two miles to the gallon better in the summer months with my less aggressive tires, you start doing the math, and depending upon how much you drive, you may very well be better off just on two sets of tires. These are things, by the way, going back to our initial visit at the tire store, these are things nobody’s telling you. Nobody at any tire store is going to walk you through and spend, I’ve just spent 45 minutes roughly going through all of this. Nobody’s going to spend 45 minutes with you at the counter. They want to spend five. And folks, I’m not exaggerating when I say that. They may not even want to spend five. They might want to do it in three. The sooner they get you in and out, the more time they have for the next guy and the next guy and the next guy. And if it’s a really busy day where you’ve procrastinated and you forgot to do tires and it’s snowing out like it has been here of late, guess what? You’re getting less time. Because they’re literally saying, you know what? Yep, I can put tires on it today. I’ve got this much time. These are the choice of tires I’ve got. What do you want? That’s the sales pitch, and I’ve been there, so I know that’s the sales pitch and how that works, and that goes back to some of the conversations that you’ve even had about buying cars. Buy things when you don’t need them, not when you do. So in other words, buy your winter tires in October, not late November. Buy your summer tires as you’re heading out of spring, March-ish, not in the middle of summer. Because, again, you’re hitting these guys at their better times, not their worst times. So tires are a big thing. There’s a lot of misconceptions on tires. People think, oh, you know, I’ve got half tread. I’m good to go. I’ve never had any trouble before. Well, have you been up I-70 when it’s slicker than snot? Have you been on that black ice that we just saw videos on here of late whereby, you know, they just continue to pile into one another because nobody can stop? Tires are a big thing. And bottom line, and the reason why I’m having this conversation with all of you is I want you all to be safe. And there’s a little bit of selfishness in this for me as well. If everybody had the right tires, we wouldn’t have the pileups and the slowdowns that we have. I’m selfish. I want to get places. The last thing I want to do is be working around that guy that didn’t buy tires. Luke’s in there laughing at me because it’s the truth. Anytime you see a big snow event, it doesn’t take long to figure out who was prepared and who wasn’t. And I’m sorry to say that, but that’s the reality of how this works. Some get really prepared. They do a really great job. They have the right tires. Everything’s dialed in. And you know what? They’re good to go. And there’s others where you’re wondering how they’re getting from A to B. Now, here’s something else. It’s a little bit of a note to all of you listening. If you’re driving down and it is a snow event. And you’re prepared. You’ve got everything all dialed in. You’ve listened to me. You’ve gone out. You’ve got the right vehicle, the right tires. Everything’s set to go. You’re perfect. You’re golden. Everything’s working. You’ve got traction. Everything’s fantastic. If you want to know the people around you that have traction and don’t, look at how much tire kick, if you would, how much snow is coming off the tire in front of you. If there’s a lot, good traction because that tire is digging in and throwing what’s on it right back out the back. That means that car has really good traction. If, on the other hand, you don’t see much coming up at all, that’s a bald tire. That means that person has very little traction. And my point with this is that’s somebody to stay away from. Because their chances of slipping and sliding into you increases because they don’t have good traction. And it doesn’t take much to figure out the vehicles around you who has traction and who doesn’t. And believe me, it’s not that complicated. Look for the tire kick, quote unquote. You know, what’s coming back up off of the tire. Same is true, by the way, in rain and water. If you see a good trail of water coming off of that vehicle, it’s got really good traction. If, on the other hand, you don’t see much at all going on and you can’t see much of a trail coming off of that vehicle, Or here’s the other telltale sign. You pull up to a stop sign, stoplight, and the car in front of you is packed with snow and you can’t see the rubber, that has bad traction. It’s not releasing the snow that’s on the tire, meaning it’s just continuing to sit on top and regurgitate that snow, meaning there’s no traction. If, on the other hand, you pull up and that tire is nice and clean, you can hardly see any snow on it, good traction. By the way, that applies to your car as well. So if you ever want to know, do I have good traction or not, as soon as you get out from driving someplace where it’s nice and snow-packed, are your tires clean or are they packed with snow? If they’re packed with snow, you probably need to look at doing something different with tires. All right, let’s talk about alignment real quick before we finish things out. Now, one thing about tires, by the way. It’s not a one-size-fits-all. I do want to mention this before we move on. It isn’t one-size-fits-all. And tires are a lot like vehicles. Oh, man, I only run XYZ because I’m brand loyal. And you’ll hear that from a lot of people. Oh, I only run Michelins. I only run Goodyears. I only run Coopers. I only run whatever. And by the way, nothing wrong with that if it works for them. But does that mean that’s your tire for your car for your application? Maybe not. And that’s where on Drive Radio especially, I’m always big on when somebody calls in and says, oh, I’ve always had good luck with such and such a tire. Okay, you might have. Good for you. That doesn’t mean it’s good for the next guy. OK, what’s good for one doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to be good for the next guy. And that’s something that I think in the tire world, there’s a lot of misconceptions as you’ll talk to the neighbor, the cubicle next to you, your your your ex or whoever. And they’re telling you, yeah, go buy this tire. It’s the best thing you can buy. Well, it might be for them. And they may have had good luck with it, but it might not be for you and your application and your car and what you’re doing. Because it’s not apples to apples. So I want to lay that out there. So when it comes to tires, really do your research. Figure out exactly what you need. For some of you that do have the larger SUVs with the really wide tires… If you have the ability to even buy a different wheel-tire combo and narrow that up, even for winter months, I know it doesn’t look as good, but if you can somehow narrow things up for the winter months whereby you’re not skiing, you’re not floating on top of everything, you’ll be much better off when it’s all said and done. All right, alignments. This is a big one, by the way. Because alignments have a lot to do, believe it or not, even with traction, how well a car works even when the roads are wet or snowy. And I’ve said this for years, there is a huge difference between alignment, you know, person A versus alignment person, you know, alignment technician B. In all of today’s modern alignment machines, they’re all computerized, and they’re all to the point, and I’m not exaggerating, with 10 minutes of training, I could have Luke doing an alignment, or at least doing an alignment inspection. And I’m not exaggerating. Luke knows enough about computers and how things run. He’s mechanical enough to put the heads on the tires, sweep it, do everything to get camber caster, all of that. I could have Luke doing an actual alignment inspection in 30 minutes or less. And he could do the next one and the next one and the next one. Now, when it comes to aligning the car, that’s where nothing against Luke, but this is where he’ll struggle. Because Luke might even get the readings all right. And by the way, Luke might do an inspection and everything’s in what we call the green, meaning you’ve got this bar scale and the readings are coming into the green. But here’s the thing. You might be right on the outside edge of one green and right on the outside edge of the other green. Yeah, they’re all green, but it’s not aligned properly. It looks good on the screen, and everything’s popping up green, and that’s fabulous for the technician that’s doing that. But unless you know what those readings mean, and that’s where I would have to get with Luke over and over again on even individual vehicles to say, this is where this vehicle should be. This is where that vehicle should be. No, we want this one to be set here. We want that one to be set there. That’s the difference between a really good alignment technician and somebody that can just do an inspection. And I’m afraid to say this because I’ve had some of you even send me in reports lately of people that have said, dealers included, oh, my car’s aligned well, here’s a report. And I look at it and say, no, it’s not. I can look at the readings for that car and say, yeah, it’s in the green, yeah, but no, it’s not aligned correctly. Your camber caster readings are way off of what they ought to be to make this car drive right. Yeah, I can see why it’s pulling to the right. I can look at the measurements and know why it’s pulling to the right. Because, by the way, this technician didn’t compensate for the crown on the road, meaning your measurements have to be different to compensate for that crown on the road. And depending upon where you live and the road you drive on might even need to be more severe than normal. That’s where the technician needs to know you and how you drive and where you drive and all of that. So a lot more to alignments. than just me training Luke how to find out if things are in the green or not. And again, nothing against guys like Luke or anybody that are out there trying their best to actually make things work. The point is, just because it’s green doesn’t mean it’s good. So if you want more tips on alignments, that might be something I even come back and talk more about. It’s really intricate, in a lot of cases, intricate to the vehicle that you’re driving, much like, by the way, tires are intricate to the vehicle that you’re driving. Those settings and what you’re getting when it comes to the alignment specs themselves vary greatly from vehicle to vehicle because, no, they are not all the same. And by the way, that even comes into the vehicle. Is it lifted? Is it not? What size tires on it? What kind of wheel offset does it have? All of that. has a big bearing upon what you do with the alignment settings and stuff. I could do an entire hour just on alignment specs alone. I probably won’t because it gets really intricate into certain vehicles, but it’s something that if you ever have a question on, by all means, reach out. All right, that’s it for another episode of Drive Radio, The Extra Mile. Appreciate you guys listening. Don’t forget the text line 307-200-8222 or send me an email, john at drive-radio.com. This is KLZ 560.
