In this episode, we dive into the heart of Christmas, exploring the balance between contemporary celebrations and the profound spiritual significance it carries for Christians. Our hosts discuss how Christmas traditions have evolved and question how these align with the original biblical intentions. Should Christians participate in Christmas festivities, or do they hold too many pagan elements? This thought-provoking discussion challenges listeners to contemplate the true essence of the holiday season in their own lives.
SPEAKER 01 :
Welcome to the National Crawford Roundtable podcast, a view of culture, current events, and politics through a biblical lens brought to you by Preborn, saving babies and souls. Join us in the fight to save babies from abortion. Your gift provides a free ultrasound for a mother in need. 80% of the time she will choose life. Visit CrawfordMediaGroup.net and click on the Preborn logo to donate to save babies now. and buy SunPower LED light therapy devices. Bring light to your pain. Visit CrawfordMediaGroup.net and click on the SunPower LED logo to get out of pain and improve your overall wellness. And now, here are your hosts, Neil Boron, Bob Duco, and John Rush.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, good to have you along here on another edition of the National Crawford Roundtable Podcast. My name is Neil Boron, host of Neil Boron Live on WDCX Radio in Buffalo, New York. Joining me today… Our friend and colleague, John Rush, the host of Rush to Reason on KLZ in Denver. Bob Duco, unable to be with us, but we’re going to talk about all things Christmas, Christmas Eve, the Christmas season, the gospel message, and kind of all of it rolled into one. And John, obviously, I’m thrilled that you’re able to be here, because if you weren’t, it would be just me. It wouldn’t be much of a roundtable.
SPEAKER 02 :
It’d be a podium.
SPEAKER 04 :
yeah a podium facing a mirror basically exactly and i’m not sure that i’m that interesting to myself i don’t think i would want to i’m not to myself i can tell you that much um you know this whole thing about christmas and christmas eve becomes a big deal every year and i you know I kind of want to look at Christmas in its entirety, just not just, you know, not just like last year, the last few years, but over the centuries even. And of course, you and I have been around quite a while, 60 plus years. So we’ve seen a lot of changes in how people handle the Christmas season and everything. But, you know, one question that immediately arises for a variety of reasons. But, you know, is Christmas something that Christians should even celebrate at all? That might sound like heresy to some, but to others, it’s like, well, you know, it ends up being about Santa Claus and about all these presents. And what does that have to do with the birth of a King? And I don’t, I, for a variety of reasons, I’ve got my own thoughts. I’ll share some of those in a minute, but just, just as we dig in here, as we begin to get our toe in the water, John, what are your thoughts? Should Christians have anything to do with or celebrate Christmas?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, I think absolutely they should. And again, I think everything needs to be put into context. We’ll talk about some of that today. And every family does things a little bit differently. And you know me, Neil, I’m never here to judge what somebody else does or doesn’t do or what their feelings are on certain things. I know there are some out there that we can probably get into this where they think there’s pagan roots to this, that, and the other. And Reality, Neil, is there is in a lot of areas. And you know what? So what? I mean, at the end of the day, it’s you. What’s in your heart? How are you looking at this particular holiday? I do think that the Lord himself wants us to reflect at certain times of the year on certain things. He made the children of Israel happy. do certain things, feasts and monuments and so on, if you would, Neal, and you know far more about some of that than even I do. But he made them do that to not forget. And not that we would ever forget Christ and the birth of, and the fact that he brought salvation to all mankind, which really is what this is all about. Although sometimes we focus so much on Christmas, we forget about Easter. That’s probably a topic that as we get into Easter. But, you know, you had to have the birth first, the virgin birth, which we can get into some of the details of this for folks listening that maybe Neil don’t even know all of the idiosyncrasies of Christmas. They just know that, oh, there was this birth of a Christian God, if you would. And yeah, that’s what Christmas is kind of about and how maybe it started. But, you know, at the end of the day, I’m into Santa Claus and presents and I really don’t care about the rest of it. And I think our goal today is Neil, would be, okay, what does Christmas really mean? And why do we, or should we, to your point a second ago, celebrate it? And I don’t know that to me, celebration is the right word. I mean, yes, we celebrate time with family and friends and coming together and reflection, and it’s the end of the year and all of that sort of stuff. But I think it’s more of a reflection of what I just said. Why did Christ come to earth in the first place? Why did God send His only begotten Son? What’s the meaning behind all of that?
SPEAKER 04 :
You honestly must have been reading my mind because a number of the things you touched on are exactly where I want to go in the conversation. And so I’m looking forward to getting there. But let me just start with a couple of things that jumped to mind. At some point you said, you know, is there a little paganism mixed in? And I think you meant in the global sense of like how people in general look at Christmas and celebrate Christmas. Yeah, there is. And some of the names of our days of the week and months of the year are named, you know, with pagan origin.
SPEAKER 02 :
We could go through a litany of things that a lot of Christians participate in that had definite roots in paganism. But yet we still, you know, most everybody that’s married that I know that’s a Christian wears a wedding ring. Well, that’s got pagan roots as well. So you’re going to not wear your wedding ring anymore?
SPEAKER 04 :
yeah and and for those reasons because there’s always a larry legalism out there some guy that like rolled over absolutely when you said that this stuff doesn’t matter i mean this is his whole his whole experience in christianity is wrapped around these things but let me let me just say that i appreciate the way you’re approaching that because What we do as individual believers is what we ourselves will give an account of to God. You know, Romans 14, 12, I think it is. So then we know that each one of us will give an account of ourselves to God. What is it that’s in our heart? What are we trying to communicate? What’s the point of what we’re doing? And I also like that you focused on the word celebrate for a minute because is anybody asking… Anyone else in the body of Christ to celebrate paganism? No. In the body of Christ, I think that the vast majority are trying to portray that the Messiah has come, that our Savior has arrived. But this is what I call the Halloween effect. And you know exactly where I’m going with this, John, because even people will have a harvest party in lieu of Halloween because they don’t want to, quote, celebrate the devil or whatever. And then people freak out because that harvest party happens on October 31st. And well, you know, that’s the day of Halloween. That means you’re celebrating Satanism. No, no, not really. Not at all, as a matter of fact. And so I think that how we conduct ourselves as believers, and I hope that all of you listening to this right now will take account of what you’re thinking, what you’re feeling, what’s in your heart and what you hope to communicate during the season. all comes into play here during our conversation today so that the Holy Spirit can legitimately speak to us and help us understand how best to portray the truths of what is a part of this entire event called Christmas and really the Advent season, the coming of Messiah, which probably another reason to not go overboard on December 25th is that That probably wasn’t the day Jesus was actually born. Most scholars and theologians think it was closer to like mid-September, mid to late September, not December 25th. But either way, the fact is, John, and you also touched on this, which I commend you for. I can’t even believe, like, I swear, I think you stole my notes. But, you know, the idea that this story has… a middle and an ending. Not only did Jesus come, he’s coming again. In the meantime, he shed his own blood and he died for us. So this story that we’re to remember continually as we take communion, that we remember the Lord’s death till he comes, that is something we are scripturally commanded to do. And as often as we do it, to remember that this is why Jesus came to shed his blood for us. But where did that begin? It began when God put skin on and entered the world on our behalf. So it had a beginning. And God’s plan and purpose for the redemption of mankind was something he planned out. He spoke it through the prophets. Eventually, it came to pass when Jesus was born. He lived and died for us and ascended to heaven. And he’s coming back again. And in a nutshell, we’ll talk more detail about that later. But, you know, the idea that Jesus came is a part of the redemption story. So how could we ignore it is really what I’m trying to say here.
SPEAKER 02 :
Absolutely. And really quick, Neil, too, on top of all of that, I know we need to do a quick break here, but on top of all of that, we as a Christian faith and as a body of believers serve the only God in all of the faiths combined that’s still alive today.
SPEAKER 04 :
Mm-hmm. Amen. And that isn’t requiring us to try to earn our salvation through other works, but literally gave up himself for us. So there’s everything about the gospel story, the good news of the gospel, is upside down and backwards compared to what anyone else is thinking about with regard to how an individual in the world can connect to God. So we’ve got a lot to talk about here. But, you know, Jesus, of course, is the light of the world. And Light has come. Jesus came into the world to save us from sin. And of course, Jesus is not only the light of the world. He said we would be the light of the world. God spoke light into existence. Why am I focusing on this? Because SunPower LED actually takes the light God created, And harnesses certain wavelengths of that light, red and near infrared wavelengths of light, and then utilizes it to help heal the human body. Amping up those wavelengths to unbelievable proportions. They enter into our body. They get to the cellular level. They excite the mitochondria in the cell, wake those cells up to begin to reduce pain and swelling and promote healing in our body. And I just recently had a total knee replacement. long overdue knee replacement that I was able to hold off on because of light therapy from SunPower LED. But the reduction of swelling in my leg and around my knee has been remarkably fast because of using the light God created to reduce that pain and swelling and to promote healing. So I’m well on my way to recovery and I’m looking forward to walking normally again by God’s grace. But listen, if you want to reduce pain or swelling in your body or promote healing, go to CrawfordMediaGroup.net, click on SunPowerLED, that’s like sun in the sky, S-U-N, SunPowerLED. Use the promo code ROUNDTABLE10 if you order anything, and you can save 10% just because you’re a listener to the National Crawford Roundtable Podcast. But you can find all of this at CrawfordMediaGroup.net, which is where you will also find our other major sponsor, John Preborn.
SPEAKER 02 :
Speaking of babies, the birth of Christ and the birth of babies, yes, they coincide, Neal, and we want to save as many babies’ lives as possible. And as Bob talks on a regular basis, and I get to interject periodically on SunPower and on Preborn when you guys can’t do it, I fill in and I feel like I’m very much an integral part of both those organizations and donate to Preborn on a routine basis. And those of you listening can do the exact same thing. I always say, put your money where your mouth is. And it’s not just saving babies’ lives. I don’t know if any of you really realize that when things like this happen, when abortions happen, it affects everybody, moms especially. But really, it affects an entire family. So if we can keep that from happening by showing especially young moms and others that are involved in this what’s really going on inside of the womb. And they do that with the ultrasound machines. And you hear Bob talk a lot where we just don’t have enough of those machines. We need more of them. Every small donation helps. Some of you that have big bucks and want to help out at the end of the year on a big tax donation, you can give $15,000 and actually buy your own machine. But I would encourage you, put your money where your mouth is. Give to Preborn today. It’s the season to give. Do that. Do it abundantly. And you can find Preborn at CrawfordMediaGroup.net.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. Amen. God lavished his love upon us in that while we were sinners, still sinners, Christ died for us. He didn’t ask us to clean up our actor to become perfect so that he could save us. He saved us in spite of our sin. And since God lavished his love upon us, let’s lavish our love upon others throughout the year. And definitely when God lays it on our heart to be a support to a ministry like Preborn. So, John, I just want to read a little bit from Luke chapter 2 for a minute, just kind of set the stage for where we’re going, because I think it’s important that if we’re going to talk about the real meaning of Christmas, that we maybe give an outline of what the gospel actually looks like. And at some point, I wouldn’t mind hearing your story about how you came to faith in Christ, and I’ll share a little bit about mine, and maybe we don’t need to belabor all the details. But I think it’s important that people understand that Jesus came to to transform us that he came to call us into a relationship with god almighty he didn’t just come so that we could worship him from afar or go to church on sundays and follow all the rules and regulations but that he literally could be known and that we could have a relationship with god but i just wanted to take a second here to kind of tell a quick version of the gospel story and that is you know according to scripture and i believe every word of it um God created men and women, all of mankind to have a relationship with himself. But that relationship was broken when sin entered the world. Of course, Adam and Eve were deceived. Sin entered the world and the relationship with God was broken. Why? Because God’s holy. Can’t have anything to do with sin. Well, not only did that separate us from God, that created a real problem because at that point we were unable to have a relationship with him. And he knew that. And I believe as a loving heavenly father, it grieved his heart. But, you know, Adam and Eve had been deceived into thinking that somehow they could be like God. If they would disobey God, listen to the serpent, that somehow they could be like him. Maybe the power of life and death could be in their hands. And, you know, that’s the sinful heart of man in action. And of course, they made a very foolish choice, rebelled against God. And the relationship with God was broken at that point. But God, I believe his heart was grieved. He wanted a relationship with each one of us, but had to first prove to us that we actually need to obey him and that we need him. that His plan and purpose is right, not the plans of our own heart or our own thoughts. There’s a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is the way of death, the Bible says. And so I think God had to prove to Adam and Eve and all of mankind, everyone living on the planet at that point, that none of us could save ourselves, that God is our hope, He’s our salvation. and uh and so i believe that’s why he gave us the law he did it of course through the jewish people he went to the people of israel and said here’s the law just just keep these ten commandments and you’ll be fine you can be saved but nobody could keep them uh and i believe all of us in some way or another have broken literally every one of them and especially according to the way jesus defined all of this but the point being that the law did exactly what it was supposed to do it proved to us that we’re broken and that we need help we need a savior and and so god began to proclaim that salvation would come through the prophets and eventually hundreds of years later after 400 years of silence the silence is broken and guess what happens a baby is born in a manger in bethlehem as it was prophesied and this is jesus savior of the world what happened was god finally said okay now that you have proven to yourselves that you can’t save yourselves I’m going to do it for you. And so he put skin on, literally was born as a baby in a manger, humbled himself, came to earth, lived a perfect life for 30, just beyond 30 years, and then began his public ministry, which only lasted a short time. He was later crucified and died, was buried and rose again on our behalf. But Jesus lived the law perfectly. He upheld the law of God and he, as the perfect lamb of God, was able then and qualified to take away the sins of the world, as the Word of God says. And so Jesus became our sacrifice. Jesus became the one who paid the price that you and I should be paying for our own sins. And so as you listen to this today, and if you’re listening, you might be driving in a car right now or whatever, you need to understand that the sins that you and I and John and all of us have committed in our lifetime, Jesus paid for at Calvary. He shed his blood. and then he died and was buried and rose again as he promised three days later defeating the power of death hell in the grave and made it possible at that point for us to simply put our faith and trust in his finished work at Calvary, that what he sacrificed for us, his own life, was sufficient to please the Father, who said, listen, you guys have sinned. I’m a righteous judge, and that needs to be accounted for. So Jesus will pay the price for you. And the question to all of us then becomes, will we let him? Will we let Jesus be the one who pays the price for us? Because the other option is that we pay with our own lives. And, you know, the wages of sin is death. The Bible says each one of us are deserving of death. But the free gift of God, the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. And that’s the message. That’s the hope of Christmas, that God literally sent redemption in the form of his own son. Jesus came and suffered and died so that we could live. That’s the miracle story of Christmas ultimately right there. And then as the gospel plays out and Jesus dies and is buried and rose again and will be coming back again, that’s the rest of the story. But you can’t have the rest of the story without the first part of the story. And John, I don’t know when it became real to you that Jesus literally died for you, But I know as a little boy in church, you know, I know for sure I didn’t receive Jesus till the age of 13. I thought I did. I made little overtures towards him, little steps. But even as a child, I remember singing Silent Night, Holy Night and songs that, you know, are reminiscent of Christmas. But I remember knowing full well in my head that Jesus came for a reason and it was so that my sins could be forgiven. I don’t know. Do you have any sense as a child of having it dawn on you that that ultimately was what Christmas was about?
SPEAKER 02 :
August 11th, 1975. I was almost 11. So I was 10 at that point because my birthday is in September. So same as you, Neal. And of course, growing up in a Christian home and being around all of that literally from the time I could remember and having parents that, you know, how do I say this, Neal? Thought enough of us to give us that foundation, knowing that we had to still be the ones to, you know, have the acceptance and do things personally. But yet having that influence upon us to to really make it an important, you know, an important thing. And by no means did my parents, you know, force us to to do anything like you, Neil. I think even prior to that, I’d probably made some small professions, but I’m not sure in my mind I really understood that. all that was. And I will tell you, since even that date, growing and learning and being a Christian, as you know, it’s not an end. It’s a beginning and an ongoing journey that just continues on and on and on. It never stops. And do I know everything involved with being a Christian? Of course not, Neil. I’m not sure that anybody, no matter what level they’re at, does. I mean, there’s a lot of great biblical scholars and so on, but all of us no matter what level we’re on, continue to learn and grow. And that’s the whole idea of being in the faith, I guess. And that’s, you know, in a way, that’s what faith is all about, Neil. You have to have faith, in this case, in things that we can’t see. We can see the evidence of, of course, and that’s part of what we’re looking at even at Christmastime. We can see the evidence of the things that happened. But you and I, you know, we weren’t in the manger. We weren’t there at his birthplace. We don’t know exactly what happened. We’ve got stories that have been recorded and retold over the years so that we’ve got something to go off of. But the reality, Neil, is you and I have faith, and I do, that all of that happened, that he did come, in fact, to save mankind. And I’m one of those that he has saved.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. Which is why, going back to the question of celebration, I’ll say a little bit more about my own story here in a minute. But, you know, from Luke chapter 2, it says, “…and there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night.” An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, Don’t be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David, a Savior has been born to you. He is Messiah, the Lord. This will be a sign to you. You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger. And suddenly a great company of the heavenly hosts appeared with the angel, praising God and saying, Glory to God in the highest. heaven and on earth, peace to those on whom his favor rests. And when the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, let’s go to Bethlehem and see this thing that’s happened, which the Lord has told us about. But, you know, this concept of good news that will cause great joy for all the people. John, that is you and I. That’s all of us. That’s every listener right now to the roundtable. This wasn’t just news for the shepherds or the people, you know, living in the Middle East at that time. Messiah had come to save all of mankind. In fact, 1 Peter 3.18 says that Christ died once for all of mankind, the just for the unjust, again, the holy for the unholy, in order that he might bring us to God. So this is the miracle of the incarnation that God, what that just means is that God put skin on and came into our mess. He got off his throne. He entered our mess. Think about that. in order that we might have a relationship with Him. We were separated from Him by our sin, but He came to rectify that situation, to pay for our sin, to wash it away, to make it possible for us to have a relationship with Him. And John, that’s the part I really love about what you were saying, that it wasn’t just in August of 75, I think you mentioned, that something happened to you and you’ve been… hunky-dory ever since. There were several times throughout my life as a kid that I made what I’d call professions of faith. But in June of 1974, I knew that I knew that I knew that I needed Jesus. And as a kid who always wanted to do the right thing, but often did the wrong thing, Yet again, I had been caught doing something that was shameful and humiliating and whatever. And I just wanted it to be over. I wanted to know that I actually knew God and that I was forgiven by him and I had a relationship with him. And that night I knelt on the living room floor with my mom and she led me to Jesus. I gave my life to Christ. in june of 1974 and boy that was only day one here we are more than 50 years later but i’m still daily being refined to understand more about how much i’m loved by god and how much god did to save us and and what i’m most impressed about in my later years here you know i mean i was just a kid back then as you were But I’ve really come to embrace the fact that beyond our wildest expectation, in spite of our sin and brokenness, we are, in fact, loved by God. And He wants a relationship with us, an intimate, personal, one-on-one, have-a-talk-with-Dad kind of relationship with our Heavenly Father who loves us and made all of this possible. And when you start to think of it that way, God didn’t ask us to sign up for a religion that we could participate in. He invited us into a relationship with himself. And to me, that’s the most powerful part of the Christmas story, which I hope that every one of you listening today now at least sees better if you didn’t understand it previously. And maybe today’s the day you need to say yes to Jesus, to say, Lord, I’ve been trying to worship you from afar. I’ve been trying to check the boxes of going to church or maybe reading my Bible or trying harder to do better and do more for you. What I didn’t realize is that putting my faith and trust in what you did for me, Jesus, when you shed your blood, and you died and suffered in my place, taking my punishment upon yourself, that that was the payment for my sin, and I receive the forgiveness that you’re offering me today. And let that be the greatest gift you’ve ever received, is the gift of forgiveness and salvation and a relationship with God because of what Jesus has accomplished. John, I know that, you know, we talk about a lot of current events on our radio shows and even here on the round table and stuff, but I’ll tell you, I will never get tired of talking about the miracle of the gospel because it’s, it’s our hope for all eternity in a crazy world, man. Thank God for Jesus.
SPEAKER 02 :
Very true. And again, going back to the original question you asked, should Christians, quote unquote, celebrate or maybe honor Christmas? And for all the reasons, Neil, that you and I have been talking about for the past 20, 25 minutes, absolutely. I mean, we are talking about the very things that should be talked about at this time of the year. And yes, presents are great. And yes, it’s fun with the kids. And yes, it’s really, in a lot of cases, for For families, it’s about the kids, and that’s fine, providing, Neil, that we’re sharing with the kids the same things you and I are talking about.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right. Yeah, and to fail to do that is to rob them of the opportunity of knowing that they personally are loved by God and that when Jesus suffered, it was with them in mind and that God wants to know them personally. Why would we rob a child of that reality? well you know um for some you know when you begin to understand the gospel it’s like a light bulb going on and i want to thank our sponsor sun power led because they know about harnessing the power of light to the glory of god and so many people have been set free from pain and all kinds of physical ailments as a result of utilizing what’s called sun power led it’s simply some devices that have harnessed light waves to be used to help reduce pain and swelling in the body and to promote healing. So people are finally saying goodbye to things like nagging arthritis pain and migraine headaches that never seem to go away and problems with their vision, tinnitus even, that people have suffered with for years. People with spinal stenosis, back and neck pain, knee pain, plantar fasciitis, so many different applications. And people have found that when you reduce the pain and swelling utilizing light therapy, you can literally be free of the pain like once and for all so if you want to learn more about what sun power led can do for you just go to crawfordmediagroup.net click on sun power led and and uh by the way if you order a unit you can learn all about everything you need to know there all the questions are there and answers and videos you can watch but if you choose to order something use the promo code roundtable10 And you get a 10% discount just because you’re a faithful listener to the National Crawford Roundtable. So Roundtable 10 is the promo code. Go to CrawfordMediaGroup.net. Click on Sun Power LED. And there you’ll also find one of our faithful sponsors, the incredible ministry Preborn, John.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, and as I said earlier, it’s the birth of Christ that we celebrate at Christmas, and we love having babies born. I can’t say that enough, Neal. Those of us that are either fathers or, in my case, grandfathers, I mean, the birth of a baby is just something that is so special. Neal, I can’t say enough about that. It’s new life, life coming into the world, life that now has opportunity and so many things that lie ahead for every single baby, providing they’re born. And the left would love to have babies eliminated. It’s partly why we have a employment slash population problem in this country. But the reality is you can save a baby’s life, actually save moms and a family’s life. We don’t talk much about dad either. In a lot of cases, this saves dad’s life as well. So at the end of the day, save not only a baby’s life, but a family’s life. Give a donation today. Put your money where your mouth is. Preborn. You can find them at CrawfordMediaGroup.net.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, and it’s simple. In fact, you may know somebody that would enjoy supporting a ministry like Preborn or learning about a product like SunPower LED. Write the information down, give it to a friend at church or somebody in your Bible study group that you think could benefit and help pass the word along. Maybe they’re not listening right now, but you are. And you can find all the information you need by going to CrawfordMediaGroup.net. Well, Bob Duco is out today, and he’ll be back with us again soon. We talk about Christmas here. It’s Neil Boron of Neil Boron Live on WDCX Radio in Buffalo, New York, and John Rush, host of Rush to Reason on KLZ in Denver, hanging out with you this afternoon as we talk about Christmas. And you really don’t need to look far to know that it’s the Christmas season. You see it in stores. You see it everywhere. Well, we’re going to continue our conversation on the second half of the National Crawford Roundtable podcast as we continue. Don’t go away.
SPEAKER 01 :
This is a Crawford Media Group production.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, more to come here as we start the second half of today’s National Crawford Roundtable podcast. As we mentioned at the outset, Bob Duco is out today. He’ll be back again soon, obviously, but that leaves John Rush and I. John is the host of Rush to Reason on KLZ in Denver. He’s a faithful colleague and friend that I’ve come to know much better over the last six years since we’ve been doing this, and just so grateful to spend time with him and with Bob every week. My name is Neil Boron, host of Neil Boron Live in Buffalo, New York, and on WDCX Radio. So each of us have our own radio talk shows, but we also have our own thoughts and ideas and opinions that we get together and share. and beat each other over the head with on a regular basis. Right. I’m just saying we we bring our thoughts to the table. And, you know, the Bible says iron sharpens iron. John, I really one of the things I’m grateful for as I reflect on another year is the opportunity to hang out with you guys, learn from each of you. be challenged by each of you. And sometimes I don’t change my mind, but often I do, you know, understanding a different perspective on any given topic. And I’m so grateful that, you know, we can be not only colleagues here on the round table, but brothers in Christ. I love that.
SPEAKER 02 :
Likewise. Feel the same way, Neil. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 04 :
So it’s the Christmas season, and contextually, I don’t really want to just focus on anything that may have happened yesterday or last week or anything, but in general, how the world sees Christmas, how the church participates in the celebration of the coming of Jesus. john you and i both grew up in really what i would call narrow-minded kind of legalistic settings we’ve compared notes many times absolutely and we’ve seen a lot of changes in how people do church i mean it’s just this one for instance nobody went to church no men went to church on a sunday when i was a kid without wearing a suit you know today guys are in blue jeans and t-shirts or whatever so you know church looks very different i’m just curious in your mind if you notice any difference in the way people talk about Christmas or celebrate Christmas in the context of the church, good or bad, like, man, you know, we used to do it this way and I sure wish we did those kinds of things or boy, am I glad we don’t do it that way anymore. And I just, you know, off the cuff wonder if anything comes to mind when I say things have changed a lot and I wonder how the church. Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
They have. I mean, for example, when I was a kid, I don’t know about you, but no one ever thought of going to church on Christmas Eve, for example. Now, that’s a variety of churches, not just Catholics will do church on Christmas Eve. And again, when I was a kid, that just never wasn’t even a thought at that point in time. Yeah. You know, to me, those are some of the good changes that have come. Are there are there bad changes? I mean, Neil, I don’t know that that’s tough. I mean, I will tell you right now that, you know, the way you and I did it, was that exactly the way things should have been done as far as Christianity is concerned? I would say right off the bat. Absolutely, positively not. You know, we have that complete legalistic live in a box, make sure everything’s exactly right. And if you’re doing everything inside the box, then you’re good to go. It’s not about a relationship. It’s about actions. It’s almost like you’re working your way to heaven, which is totally anti biblical. And at the end of the day, that doesn’t work at all. So I can’t tell you that the way I was raised was right, because frankly. In that respect, it was completely wrong. It was backwards of what it should have been. It wasn’t about a relationship. It was about what you were doing inside of that quote-unquote legalistic box. And so it’s hard for me sometimes to be critical of some of the things that you see change and morph over time. And by the way, I do think that things do need to change and morph over time. I’m probably going to get some heat for saying that because there’s folks out there thinking that, nope, everything needs to always stay the same. And, you know, we can never make any changes whatsoever. Well, you know, society does move. And if you’re going to, you know, what I always talk about on my show, if you’re going to market, you know, if you’re going to know your market and try to reach your market, which is, you know, of course the business sides of things, but Neil, it applies to the Christian world as well. You have to meet people, which Christ did, by the way, he was the best example of, of meeting people where they were, and by the way, getting crucified over it, because we all think, yes, the Romans performed the actual act of crucifixion. I know we’re getting into more of the Easter sides of things, Neil, but the Romans performed the act, but it was the legalistic Jews of the day that actually had him crucified, because he was doing so many things outside of the box, i.e., meeting people where they were.
SPEAKER 04 :
Again, it’s funny that you, I said this in the first half that you might’ve been reading my mind because when I was asking the question about how things have changed, you know, when I was a kid, one of the great joys was going to a mall here called the Boulevard Mall. And it was kind of the hip mall back in the day until the Galleria came along and basically shut it down. But anyway, our church where I was attending had a huge choir and pretty sophisticated, you know, uh orchestra that went along with the choir and we did huge christmas cantata kind of things you know these big musical events so we actually got permission each year to go to the mall and do this huge concert and outreach and a lot of people would stop and listen and i think that by and large i don’t have any criticism of that i was a little kid and i saw a lot of people stop and listen to the music and music can you know, open the soul to things that maybe had been closed to before and the truth of the gospel was being proclaimed. So in that sense, there was nothing wrong with it. However, there wasn’t a lot of interaction between the choir and the people listening that once the song ended, boom, people went about their way and went shopping and maybe a few people handed out some gospel tracks, but it wasn’t like relationships were being built. And I think maybe the one thing I’ve observed over the years is that we seem to understand a little better at least in the circles i run in the importance of connecting with real people and having conversations with them about the power of the gospel to transform lives in other words taking the christmas story and not just you know saying it to somebody or singing it to somebody but interacting with somebody about it and how that story has changed my life you know by attaching a testimony to the reality of what we’re seeing played out before us in the story of christmas so i don’t know but i I really am grateful for opportunities we have now as adults to connect with others. And I think social media has kind of actually gotten in the way of the connection purports to help us make better connections. But I really just want to challenge as many people as possible, whether it’s through your own community group or just inviting a friend out for a cup of coffee or having somebody come to your home on Christmas Eve or have Christmas dinner with you. Open your doors, bring them in. Create relationships and tell the story of the gospel to others. You know, like it’s that personal connection that I think God will use to help open hearts so that people can really begin to encounter truth. And I just wish we could focus on that even more. I feel like we’re moving in that direction. I want to see even more of it. But, John, tell us about Preborn. We wouldn’t have the opportunity to talk about the gospel without our sponsors. And Preborn is one of them.
SPEAKER 02 :
We wouldn’t be doing what we do here. And yes, great organization. We’ve been a part of what they do now for several years. And you guys can be a part of as well. And by the way, I know some of you are. I get emails and notes from folks that are participating in what Preborn does. And there’s times I even get people asking, what can I do? And I immediately say, well, here’s a great example of what you can do to help people. those that not only are in need, but babies especially, that really, Neil, let’s face it, they have no voice. We now, pre-born us, those that give, we become the voice for that baby. And the left wants to silence those voices, literally. Their goal is to silence every baby’s voice. I believe full well that They don’t even believe in the whole Planned Parenthood and, you know, let’s plan to be a parent. Honestly, Neil, if the left had their way, I firmly believe they wouldn’t allow a single baby to be born. I think there’s times where they’re very antagonistic about even the birth of any baby. And they especially when it comes to abortion, want that pushed all the way up until the day of birth, a full 10 months. And we just don’t believe in that. Neither does Preborn. Preborn helps a mom see what’s going on inside of her womb with ultrasound machines. You can help with that today. Donate to Preborn. If you can buy an ultrasound machine, go online and do that as well. It’s a great tax deduction this time of the year. And again, find Preborn at CrawfordMediaGroup.net.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, and if I can just piggyback on that for a second, I’ve mentioned this before, but if any of you are just listening for the first time or you’re new to the podcast, my wife is a nurse and she does ultrasounds at a pregnancy care center here in Western New York. 80% of the women that see the ultrasound image of their baby choose life for their baby. It’s an incredible reality. obviously support Preborn generously. And when you’re at CrawfordMediaGroup.net, you’ll also see our other sponsor, SunPower LED. Now, you’ve heard me talk about knee pain for a while because as a kid, you know, I played a lot of sports. I ended up over the years having four different knee surgeries. And I was on the verge of needing a fifth when my doctor said, I’m not operating on your knee anymore. You’re going to need a new knee. and by god’s grace i ran into something called sun power led it’s light therapy literally that uses light wavelengths to help reduce pain and swelling and i was able to get some additional relatively pain for years out of my knee before eventually it had to be replaced well even after the replacement i’ve been using light therapy from sun power led to reduce the swelling in my knee because you know that’s one of your biggest enemies after total knee replacement surgeries. You got to get rid of the swelling. And I was at the PT yesterday. It’s my third visit to the PT. And they said, good Lord, like your knee has really gone down. The swelling’s unbelievably down. Are you icing a lot? I said, well, I ice occasionally, but I’ve been using light therapy. And they were like, really? So I got a chance to talk about it, but listen, whether it’s back pain, knee pain, tinnitus, migraine headaches, maybe you’re in need of re recovering quicker after some type of surgery that you’ve been through. And you have a general distrust of big pharma and You don’t want anything to do with pumping your body full of medications. We’ll learn about what light can do, the light God created by going to SunPowerLED, I’m sorry, CrawfordMediaGroup.net and clicking on SunPowerLED. Use the promo code ROUNDTABLE10 and you can actually save yourself 10% on any purchase just because you’re a listener to the National Crawford Roundtable Podcast. Again, go to CrawfordMediaGroup.net. Well, we’re talking generally about Christmas and the celebration of Christmas and what the role of Christians ought to be around this time of year and how we best can communicate the gospel. And I certainly hope that those of you listening have been pondering those kind of thoughts as well, because we’re to be representatives of Jesus every day of the year, not just during the Christmas season. We’ve got a tremendous opportunity and hearts are generally open at this time of year. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this in your own life, but People get very sentimental around this time of year because they start thinking about mom or dad who may not be with us anymore or a loved one that’s lost. There’s an empty chair at the table this year. And hearts are open. In fact, hearts are often broken at this time of year. And it’s like, where will I find the comfort that I’m looking for? Well, Jesus, guess what, is the Prince of Peace. And Jesus came to heal broken hearts. And I don’t know about you, John, but I’ve seen tremendous openness at this time of year for people to… at least consider something bigger than a story about Santa Claus, that there must be something more to all of this than just what we see on television.
SPEAKER 02 :
There is a lot more to it than what we see on television. In fact, Neil, we’ve only, literally, we have just scratched the surface on what Christmas means and the fact that Christ had to come to redeem all of mankind. And literally, we could do several podcasts in a row talking about exactly what does that mean and why did God do what he did. And there’s a lot of people that I think at times question all of this. But at the end of the day, Christmas is here because of that redemptive story it’s completed of course at easter time neil and the death and resurrection of that same baby by the way some you know 33 years roughly later but the reality is this is the beginning of the story easter is the total redemption side of the story that by the way continues on the story is not over
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, amen, it is not over. And that means there’s more good news on the way. But I was just thinking, you know, if Bob was here, I’d be saying 180 plus. But at least between you and I, we’ve got 120 plus years on the planet. We’ve seen a lot of things. And we’ve experienced a lot of joy and heartache and sorrow. But in the midst of it, the peace that Christ can bring, whatever. I’m just wondering if somebody said to you, hey, John, tell me about a memorable Christmas in your life. It might have been the most exciting or… you know, it might’ve been the most challenging or whatever, but.
SPEAKER 02 :
I think it’s funny because of what I do today with one of my businesses. And this, this one always comes to mind the most memorable Christmas ever. I remember I was probably 16 years old or so. I’d have to go back and look at the dates. I think it was 16. Cause it was the Christmas of, of, I want to say 1980. Don’t quote me on that. I have to go back and actually look at the records to determine, but we had a huge, massive two foot snow storm at that time and, Uh, my family’s business always did a big, you know, employee Christmas party. And so, you know, we were doing all of that and it started to snow really heavy and we decided to shut the party down a little bit early. And by the time we got everybody kind of where they needed to be, my grandmother at the time, uh, believe it or not, even though my, my grandparents owned a car dealership, my grandmother never had a driver’s license. Everybody drove her everywhere. And so we had to take my grandmother home, my dad and I, and I remember us getting stuck and having to winch up the hill to actually take, uh, them home and then of course the next day was really dicey because that was back before really we have all of the snow removal equipment that we have today it was just a really you know interesting and challenging yet at the end of the day neil fun christmas because you couldn’t do some of the things you normally would do which actually I think at that time made Christmas more special because you couldn’t travel around and do some of the things you normally would do. It forced you into being more present, I guess you could say. Even at that age I was, you had to be more present at that time because you didn’t have anything else to do.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, and my brain started spinning as you were telling that story. I love the story you just communicated. But a similar thing happened here when there was a really bad Christmas storm. And, of course, living in Buffalo, New York, like you’re in Denver, Colorado, you end up getting a lot of snow from time to time. And, you know, it just happened to fall on Christmas Eve. And we had several members of our family, including my sister’s fiancee at the time, staying over. And, you know, it was just one of those times when you weren’t able to go anywhere, really. So you just had to be together. We realized that we wanted to order a pizza, but we couldn’t because nothing was going to be open. So we scrounged around and we found stuff and we made our basically our own muffin slash bread and created our own pizzas. But we were being silly and just acting like we spoke Italian or whatever, and As silly as it was, there was a real bonding that happened there and there was a purity of relationship. It was just, hey, we got nothing else except each other, so let’s just enjoy one another. And it was really special. But if somebody were to press me to the wall and say, name the Christmas that was most memorable to you. And there’s been a lot. But one year in particular, my dad had been out of work for a couple of years and he had worked in the tool and dye industry. And You know, in Buffalo, New York, Bethlehem Steel was huge back in the day. And then all of a sudden it closed in the mid 1970s and 5,000 people, or maybe it was 50,000. I don’t remember, lost their jobs in a single day. I was a kid. I just remember that the whole city was grieving. And my dad, because he was a tool and die draftsman, you know, that’s an associated industry that works with the steel industry. And so people were getting laid off. My dad got laid off and there was a long period of time without any kind of income whatsoever. And Christmas was coming and I could feel the strain in my parents’ hearts and minds. And believe me, we never went over the top on Christmas. We were bare bones kind of family, but it didn’t look like there was gonna be much of a Christmas celebration. But we went to church that night and had some kind of a gathering there, came back to the house. And my mom said, you know, we weren’t able to afford a Christmas tree this year, but maybe because it’s Christmas Eve, some of the places that sell Christmas trees like these parking lots you pull up in and you can buy a tree, maybe somebody would sell one at a real discounted price. So we went out driving around and we happened to pull into a nursery, you know, where you’d normally go to buy flowers or plants or something. and they were closing up and the guy said what can i do for you he said well we were hoping to buy a tree he said no we’re all closed up he said but you know what it’s christmas eve why don’t you just go pick one out so we did we got a free tree and we came home and as we pulled in the driveway we were just overwhelmed because sitting just outside the door were all these boxes we got to them we took them inside we opened them up and they were filled with presents because some other families in the church knew of our situation and loved us man they just they just loved us amen and you know it wasn’t about the presence it was about being remembered yeah you know it’s about that somebody cared and that’s a simple gesture but man that that one rocks my socks every year and i want to be sure that my family and the people close to me that we’re aware of what’s going on in the lives of others and maybe that’s a good word for any of us today you know look around who could we bless at christmas time and how could we and again i’m not a big fan of giving lots of presents but it’s the thought that counts it’s the idea of just expressing that’s right at christmas time that’s exactly right So you have a real quick here as it comes to mind, any kind of a regular tradition? Do you guys do something special on Christmas Eve or Christmas?
SPEAKER 02 :
No, with the kids getting, you know, it’s gotten the point with the kids and all the grandkids and everything else. We tend to go to them versus them, you know, coming to us. It makes it easier for them. I, you know, in the family situation we have, I try to take the burden off of them from having to, you know, roam around on Christmas day. Like we used to have to do when we, We were kids and I remember that that was really not a lot of fun, frankly, going from place to place to place. And so we’ve kind of take the opposite approach. We go to them versus the other way around. And for me personally, Neil, I know you feel the same way, just spending time with, you know, kids and grandkids. Honestly, I don’t care if there’s a present at all. It’s that time you get with them that means the most to me.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. Over the last few years, same thing. You know, we’ve really come to cherish just time together as a family. And for whatever reason, I’ve always liked Christmas Eve better than Christmas Day. I always think that Christmas Day is a little bit anticlimactic because the minute you open the presents and it’s like, now what? It’s like, you know, maybe nine or ten in the morning and you’re going, OK, what do we do now? But Christmas Eve still means, in my mind anyway, I’m a pretty simple guy, but that all of the celebrating is still before us. It’s still to come. And there’s that anticipation, even though we know that December 24th was probably not the exact night before that Jesus was born, you know. like I said earlier, scholars saying it was probably more like in September-ish or late September. But either way, it’s the anticipation kind of thing. But we’ve just made it a day when we can be together as a family, perhaps watch a Christmas movie together. We often do that, not every year. But also I started making homemade chicken wings. And I don’t know that I’ll be able to this year, but I have for the last 10 years or so. And chicken wings are big in Buffalo. So that became kind of a little bit of our celebration and we all open just one present we give each other one present and um drawing names so that we don’t have to give a present to everyone just one special person and open them together so it’s usually us with our kids and grandkids and sometimes you know they have to be at their in-laws house or whatever but most years all of us are able to be together on christmas eve and i wouldn’t have it any other way i just can’t think of a better way to celebrate yep i agree So anyway, as you ponder, John, what you’re going to be getting me for Christmas this year.
SPEAKER 02 :
There you go. There you go. It’s in the mail. It’s in the mail.
SPEAKER 04 :
I’ll be watching the mailbox. Exactly. I wanted to give you an opportunity. We’ll be talking about our sponsors again in just a minute, but maybe speak from your heart to the listeners. To offer any kind of encouraging word at Christmastime, there’s a lot of pain, a lot of suffering in the world. And, you know, there’s some folks looking for hope. And I think that because of Jesus, we know where that can be found. But I wanted to give you a chance to just speak directly to the listeners about nothing in particular other than what the Holy Spirit places on your heart.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, and I think, and this is something I try, and by no means, you know me, Neil, I’m pretty, probably the least counseled, you know, least, how should I say this? I’m the person that you want to counsel you probably the least because I’m kind of one of those, you know, suck it up, buttercup, let’s move on. Life is hard for everybody. You know, let’s get after it. So I’m probably the last person to counsel, although. There are times where, you know, in every role, mine included, you have to. And I think for me, Neil, the thing I try to get folks to focus on is, number one, everybody has a problem. There’s two equalities of life. All at the same time, everybody has a problem. So, yes, your problem you might feel is bigger than the next. And you might look at somebody else and think, man, they don’t have any problems. Well, let me tell you what. they do they probably just do a better job of hiding it than somebody else does so at the end of the end of the day neil we all have some kind of a problem going on and you know we all lose loved ones and have trauma and different things that have happened in our past and so on and i think if there’s anything that that again i try to encourage people to do is you know stop looking at the past in fact it’s and i say this all the time and i mean this it’s satan and the devil That, you know, he’s the one that wants you to look at the past. God doesn’t drive you to the past. God always is driving you to the future. What is he bringing to you on down the road? He is redeeming you from your past, allowing you to now look forward in a new way. And it’s only Satan that is wanting you to look at your past and feel bad about it, Neal.
SPEAKER 04 :
Such a good word. And probably the one thing I would want to say, I came to realize this year that the term Advent really means coming or whatever, the sense of anticipation and arrival and so forth. But Jesus didn’t come just once. He’s coming again. And the Advent story really is about that God came to earth one time, shed his blood, died, as we talked about earlier, gave his life for us so that we could be forgiven of sin and have a relationship with him again. But that one day he’s coming again. um to call us into you know wherever we’re headed heaven whether it’s new heaven new earth right here i realize there’s different views or opinions about that but eternity where there’s no pain no suffering no tears and that every whatever’s wrong right now will have been made right And that we have the opportunity to experience him right here, right now, while the pain and suffering continues. But knowing down the road that one day that’s all going to be taken away. And that we have hope. We have a future. We have peace. We can have joy right now in the midst of all this because of what Jesus has accomplished for us and because of who he is. And he loves us. He loves each one of us. And he wants a relationship with you and John and me and all of us. And I just want to invite you to open the door of your heart. Make room for him. In your life, like, you know, the innkeeper. Hey, no room here in the inn. Well, open the door of your heart and find out what can happen next when you allow Jesus in. So, John, tell us about pre-born, because I don’t know if we’re talking about the baby Jesus in a manger that so aptly fits what pre-born is all about.
SPEAKER 02 :
Sure does. And it’s that time of the year where we think about babies a lot more than we normally would. Not that we don’t think about them all the time. We do. Babies are great. New life. And looking to the future of that, like I said a moment ago, looking to the future in this particular case of that baby, that baby’s life, the life of mom, dad, grandparents, friends, relatives, you name it. It’s such a joy when babies come into the world and And I think, Neil, you know, folks that and no judgment, please. This one thing I don’t think we say enough of. I don’t take just a second. No judgment upon some of you that may have had an abortion in the past. I realize things happen. Decisions are made. And typically there’s some regrets that are made. after those decisions. And God is a God of redemption. As I said a moment ago, He’s not looking at your past. He’s looking at your future. But what Preborn does is try to help ladies make the right choice so that some of those regrets down the road just aren’t there. They do that by showing ultrasound images of the baby, shows the life that’s there, and literally that life form starts really early, folks. Most people don’t even realize how that baby forms and how early it it starts to actually look like a baby in the womb. And Preborn does all of that, changing people’s lives. I say people because it’s everybody involved with that baby. Give today, folks. Give, as I always say, put your money where your mouth is. Give to Preborn today. Find them at CrawfordMediaGroup.net.
SPEAKER 04 :
And CrawfordMediaGroup.net is where you can also learn about SunPowerLED, which literally just harnesses red and near-infrared light waves from the light spectrum. Takes red and near-infrared light, amps it up, and allows it to enter your body through a device called SunPowerLED light therapy device. literally, that penetrates your skin. We’re not talking about any UV rays that are going to cause cancer. This is just light that can heal your body. Same as you need light for vitamin D, light therapy from SunPower LED can energize the cells in your body to do what the cells were created to do, and that’s reduce pain, reduce swelling, and promote healing without pharmaceuticals, without any drug intervention or anything. And Caleb is a story I love to tell people. Caleb’s story is unbelievable. This was a young guy that was using a pickaxe. John, you would know about that in your business. And somehow missed and severed his ankle tendon with a pickaxe. I mean, horrible, horrible. Doctor said it was gonna be six to nine months before he would ever walk again. He was walking in four weeks and this part’s unreal. He didn’t need any pain medication. that’s unbelievable well there’s all kind of stories about people overcoming migraine headaches and tinnitus and epilepsy and you know just about anything you can imagine back and neck pain check it out by going to sunpowerled uh at crawfordmediagroup.net just click on the sunpower led button watch the videos learn about it and if you happen to order something you know that you can get a 10% discount just by using the promo code ROUNDTABLE10. 10% discount because you’re a Roundtable listener. CrawfordMediaGroup.net. Click on SunPowerLED. We got about 20 seconds left, John. Favorite Christmas movie of all time. Ready, go.
SPEAKER 02 :
Christmas Vacation.
SPEAKER 04 :
I had a feeling. I don’t know why. I just had a feeling. I love Deck the Halls for some reason. I don’t know. That’s a good one, too. Being able to see the… Elf’s another good one. Elf, yeah. I mean, it’s become over the… It’s more recent. And then, like, long-term history, it’s a wonderful life for me. It’s got to be rolled in there somewhere.
SPEAKER 02 :
Hate that movie.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, anyway. I love you anyway, John.
SPEAKER 02 :
Love you, too, man.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hey, listen, thanks for all of your help today. Bob will be back with us next time, and God bless. All of you have a Merry Christmas. Thanks for supporting the National Roundtable podcast and our sponsors. God bless you, and Lord willing, we’ll see you again soon. Don’t go away.
SPEAKER 02 :
Merry Christmas.
SPEAKER 01 :
You’ve been listening to the National Crawford Roundtable Podcast, a view of today’s culture through a biblical lens, brought to you by Preborn, saving babies and souls. Join us in the fight to save babies from abortion. Your gift provides a free ultrasound for a mother in need. 80% of the time she will choose life. Visit CrawfordMediaGroup.net and click on their logo to donate. And by SunPower LED light therapy devices, bring light to your pain. Visit CrawfordMediaGroup.net and click on the SunPower LED logo to get out of pain and improve your overall wellness. You can download this podcast from Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, and more. from your local Crawford Media Group station’s website or at CrawfordMediaGroup.net. And please give this podcast a five-star rating on your Apple app. Look for the notification on your app for when the next weekly edition of the National Crawford Roundtable podcast is ready for you to download. This is a Crawford Media Group production.
