In this compelling episode of Sekulow, Will Haines and Jordan Sekulow delve into Senator Bill Hagerty’s bold legal action against alleged unlawful spying on phone records in the Arctic Frost investigation. As the first Congress member to initiate such a action, Hagerty’s move sets a precedent, shining light on the complexities of telecommunications companies’ compliance with DOJ subpoenas. Backed by multiple senators, our pursuit for transparency intensifies as FOIA lawsuits seek answers the public deserves.
SPEAKER 05 :
Today on Sekulow, Senator Bill Hagerty takes legal action against illegal spying on his phone records.
SPEAKER 04 :
Keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever. This is Sekulow. We want to hear from you. Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110.
SPEAKER 05 :
And now your host. Welcome to Seculo. I’m Will Haines. I’m joined by Jordan Seculo in studio today. And folks, you’re going to want to get in on this conversation early at 1-800-684-3110. Because Senator Bill Hagerty is the first member of Congress to take action against… What happened to him and other senators in the Arctic Frost investigation where they seized the phone records of sitting senators and a member of Congress? Jordan, the senator is going through an FCC route for this investigation. trying to take action against Verizon, who was his telecommunications carrier, and trying to get reforms, acknowledgements that this won’t happen again. And really, this is the first effort we’ve seen by a member of Congress pushing back on what happened to them.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah I mean this is again it’s a way to go because you can you can look at this both ways versus the FBI and DOJ wrongdoing by issuing these subpoenas putting them under seal calling these senators a flight risk like Bill Hagerty as if and then of course keeping it from them so it’s issuing that subpoena then to the telecom company in this case it was Verizon and then saying we need the number here’s the phone number we need all the proprietary information from this period of time by the way this is under seal so you can’t inform the the person whose number that is and we’ve heard from some of these carriers oh well we we just looked up phone numbers We didn’t look up to see who they were, and we don’t do that when the FBI comes to us, except for when they issued the report and gave the information to the FBI, guess what it said on top of the document? Bill Hagerty. So it identified Senator Hagerty. They were able to, at Verizon, identify. So even if they didn’t know when they first got the number whose information they were getting, they had a second chance to ask the FBI, hey, wait, wait, wait. You’re asking us to give over this proprietary information of a U.S. Senator and you’re calling them a flight risk and you’re saying it’s a part of this criminal investigation. We’ve got to have more answers. We have a lot of questions before we’re just going to hand this information over to you. that excuse of well it’s just a bunch of random numbers that they send us that may be the case when they initially receive it from the DOJ but then when they start compiling the report they absolutely know who the number belongs to so we saw some carriers like AT&T push back on Jack Smith and you know what Jack Smith never went back to them you know why he knew he was in the wrong He was trying to see if he could catch these telecom companies and try to act like this is business as usual, like another criminal investigation, and just get the information. One AT&T person at the company who received this said no. And that was with Senator Ted Cruz’s account. And again, they said no. They responded to Jack Smith. Jack Smith never came back to them. So he had no argument for them. So all of these companies could have pushed back just a little by saying, we don’t think you have the right to this information. We need more information. We don’t believe we can keep this from our client, our customer. And this is something totally new. This is not like how we normally conduct business, even with you all when you’re involved in a criminal investigation. And by saying that, they could have shut down the entire Arctic Frost look at these US senators. Instead, other AT&T agents handed the information right over. So it wasn’t just one company did the right thing and another company did the wrong thing. Inside the same company, you were having good things done and bad things done. And that’s what we have to get at, making sure that this never happens again. This abuse of our legal system to get at a separate branch of government and to be able to hide it from them because, quote, Jack Smith qualified them as flight risk. U.S. Senators. as flight risk those who serve us we’ll take your calls on this 1-800-684-3110 arctic frost is not going away and we are about to file our foia lawsuit doj didn’t respond in a number of agencies so now we’ll be going to court to get the information of course we’ll share that with the senators as well we’re just on a call about that with the senator hagerty’s team join us 1-800-684
SPEAKER 05 :
Welcome back to Sekulow. And once again, as Jordan said, we want to hear from you on this 1-800-684-3110. But we’re talking about this action that Senator Hagerty is taking, going to the FCC with a complaint over his carrier Verizon. And here’s what he’s demanding be the result of that as this first action trying to hold the telecom companies as well as the Department of Justice under the Biden administration accountable for what happened. He’s demanding a written apology and admission that it broke the law by Verizon CEO and the CLO. Then also he wants discipline of those responsible, including the CLO and then CEO, now special advisor. He wants documents and information about how Verizon processed this subpoena and its communications with the special counsel and also wants reform of Verizon’s practices to ensure this doesn’t happen again. This is at the same time that this morning on Capitol Hill, there are CEOs of these telecommunications companies testifying before a Senate committee. And we’ll play some of that sound as well. But Jordan, the ACLJ also is involved in this because we had originally filed FOIAs, which went unresponsive. Now we are taking that step today of suing these agencies to get the documents related to this that the public needs to see.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, and so this FOIA, initially it was backed by, and it is backed by, Senator Cruz, Senator Graham, Senator Tuberville, Senator Blackburn, Senator Hagerty, and Senator Loomis as well. And in this, again, we requested the records under FOIA. The time started running on their response. And, of course, as usual, even with this Department of Justice, they did not meet their deadline. We gave them a little bit of extra time, which you normally would do, and we did that in writing. And so now we are filing in federal court to get this information as quickly as possible. And who we are suing, it’s not just the DOJ and FBI. It’s specific. It’s the DOJ Office of Information Policy, the FBI, the DOJ National Security Division, the DOJ Criminal Division, and the DOJ Office of legal counsel they will all be sued today by the American Center for Law and Justice on behalf of those senators to get these records and what records are we looking for the discussions that pertain to putting this information and complying with Jack Smith’s order any kind of interviews that were conducted about this and anything that was being discussed by Jack Smith and the investigators about how they wanted to move on this. Because as I remind you from the first segment, when Jack Smith got a pushback from one of these telecom companies for one of these senators, They never responded. So they had to have known. They were on very weak legal ground seeking this information under seal by declaring that these senators were somehow a flight risk with no evidence whatsoever that they were a flight risk. I don’t think a single one of them had any history at all It’s always laughable that they would be a flight risk, but that is how they kept it under seal. So we want the information about that. The records that authorized the access to this, but yet prohibited access from the members of Congress. Basically, again, then you’re looking for all the records tied to this. You want to see what was going on when Jack Smith got that response from AT&T and said, okay, no pushback. There has to be a reason why, right? Whether or not they wrote it down or they had some communications or somebody took it in their notes, he instructed them not to push. And I believe he instructed them not to push because they knew if it somehow got into court or a legal matter that the telecom companies who did push back were on the right side. But that’s all it would have taken if these other telecom companies like Verizon had a backbone and just pushed back and said, this doesn’t seem right to us. This doesn’t pass the smell test. We need more information about why you’re keeping this under seal, why you believe these individuals are flight risk, because we’re supposed to inform them within a certain amount of days. if you have subpoenaed their records and this is not allowing us to abide by our normal terms and services and agreement we have with our customers because that’s what those senators are and I would love to see Jack Smith’s response to his team because you would think his team would say okay let’s go after him and he called him off he called the dogs off and I only can imagine that’s because he knew that if this ended up in a legal proceeding he had the weaker argument such a weak argument that it wasn’t even worth trying to push back on AT&T that’s right Jordan and a reminder to everyone watching the the senators there were eight of them that were targeted by this it was Senator Graham
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, actually, nine, eight had their records actually obtained by the special counsel’s office. That was Senator Graham, Senator Hagerty, Senator Hawley, Senator Sullivan, Senator Tuberville, Senator Johnson, Senator Loomis and Senator Blackburn, as well as Representative Mike Kelly. Ted Cruz was also a target of this. But as you mentioned, AT&T did not provide his information, even though some of these others were. Also, AT&T customers did have their information provided. And why I think this is so important for people to remember, because as we talk about, these are senators. It’s egregious that they could do this as it is, that he was able to get through these hoops. But remember, Jack Smith testified a few weeks ago on Capitol Hill. And he was telling the members of Congress that day that the reason for using it under SEAL, the reason for including the language flight risk, etc., are basically just pro forma statements that they file when they want it under SEAL. that even that is so egregious that the Department of Justice under the Biden administration, their policy was to file statements that were just essentially boilerplate language to get what they wanted. The ends justified the means for the Biden Department of Justice. Things like that have to change because if they can do that with a boilerplate language saying could be a flight risk, we want you to mask the number and the courts go along with it, If they’re willing to do that for a U.S. senator, not a single person has the right to privacy in their own data anymore under what the Biden administration’s DOJ was doing. And I think that’s why we have to continue down this path. We have to see the communication to protect not just the senators and the co-equal branch of government, but for the average ACLJ listener. Because if they feel like they can get away with it, What is the next administration going to do that doesn’t have the civil liberties of Americans at mind? That’s where we have to continue down this path.
SPEAKER 08 :
Absolutely. 1-800-684-3110 is the number. If you want to talk to us on air, that’s 1-800-684-3110. Let’s go to Robert in Maryland on line one. Hey, Robert.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I wanted to ask you questions. You maybe partially answered the first question. The first question was dealing with the issue of Arctic Frost. And I wanted to know if there was any involvement by the CIA and the National Security Agency in addition to the Department of Justice in obtaining the phone records of those senators and the representatives. The second question I had was related to the Benghazi terrorist attack. My understanding is the FBI has captured someone that was involved in the Benghazi terrorist attack on 9-11-2012, and I wanted to know where he was captured.
SPEAKER 05 :
So let’s answer the second question first. Yeah. To that, Robert, they have not said, uh, specifically the DOJ and a lot of that, uh, when they gave the press conference, they said, uh, a lot of that was under seal and that would be to protect sources and methods of how they actually caught this guy, uh, that there had to be someone that gave him up that turned out where, and that could compromise, uh, us assets overseas. So, uh, A lot of those details are still not known to the public and have not been released. And the last I checked, they hadn’t said where he was picked up, but he arrived at Andrews Air Force Base at three in the morning. I don’t think he was, you know, on a beach in Florida and they happened to pick him up, that it was somewhere where there was probably a coordinated effort between between the DOJ and other agencies in the U.S. government that would be able to go and take someone into custody like that. So I think there’s a reason why they didn’t come forward and say he was… It wasn’t like the bin Laden raid where we knew exactly where the compound was and how they got to him. So I would just say that.
SPEAKER 08 :
But Jordan, to the Arctic Frost part… If there’s other intelligence agencies… I mean, listen, when you’re dealing with the DOJ National Security Division, Criminal Division… you’re likely there’s crossover there with intelligence community whether or not it’s the CIA itself or other intelligence branches there’s likely crossover but it was the DOJ and FBI taking the lead on this with Jack Smith remember he was the special counsel who had this ability to go out and get these subpoenas issued and to these phone providers but I think as Senator Hagerty says if this can happen to a sitting U.S. Senator to a sitting US Senator, it can happen to any American very easily. And so the way that these telecom companies just kind of bend over backwards for any time the FBI is seeking information, I think should not be the norm. You know, they should ask questions and push back and they shouldn’t just say, well, we got a bunch of random numbers. Let’s give them everything they want. Why not look into those numbers and see if those one, if they are if they’re kind of similarly situated. So if they’re all U.S. senators or all elected officials like they were in this case and they’re using terms that wouldn’t make sense for current elected officials, like they’re a flight risk somehow, even though they have no history of that. I mean, treating them like they are cartel leaders. Really. I mean, that’s how Jack Smith tried. Now, when there was pushback, he didn’t fight back. So we really want to get that information, too, through our FOIA is why didn’t Jack Smith fight back on that AT&T time when they would not hand over Ted Cruz’s information? We want to know the details. To get that, we now have got a file in federal court against multiple agencies and departments within the DOJ and FBI. We need your financial support. Donate today at ACLJ.org. This is a major FOIA lawsuit on the behalf of six U.S. senators. Donate today. ACLJ.org. File. Donate today.
SPEAKER 05 :
Welcome back to Seculo. And if you want to call in about that Arctic frost story, as well as what Senator Hagerty is doing, call us at 1-800-684-3110. But we are going to pivot a little bit here. And we’re joined by Jeff Balaban, director of ACLJ Jerusalem, who is in Israel as we speak. about something that occurred yesterday. There was a Religious Liberty Commission hearing where this is a commission that was established by executive order by the president early in his term and was supposed to serve for a year. It’s supposed to end on July 4th at the celebration of the 250th. But their entire job was to come up with a comprehensive report about the foundations of religious liberty in America, the impact of religious liberty on society, current threats to domestic religious liberty, and strategies to preserve and enhance religious liberty protections for future generations. So what we’ve seen is that this commission, which has big names in the faith community like Franklin Graham on it, as well as Cardinal Dolan, names that people know, kind of got shaken a little bit yesterday. with this hearing that was supposed to be focused on anti-Semitism. And it had people testifying, including Bruce Pearl, former Auburn University basketball coach who’s been on this broadcast before, as well as from UCLA Law School, an individual, a student that was there. Many different universities represented to talk about the experiences of anti-Semitism or combating it in the United States after October 7th. And what we saw, Jeff, was an individual who was on the commission who hijacked the hearing on antisemitism to spew antisemitic rhetoric to prop up the lies and the hatred that we’ve seen be spewed by the likes of Candace Owens, to interrogate the witnesses talking about their experience of anti-Semitism on U.S. campuses and flip it on them. She was wearing a Palestinian pin, it appeared. but became an activist going against the people trying to testify to help this commission make recommendations to the president on how to combat anti-Semitism. And she became maybe a case study for the commission itself.
SPEAKER 06 :
You know, because we work not only in the courts, but also very much in Washington at the political level, we know at the policy level, we know that the, But maybe much of the public does not know that, unfortunately, there’s an entire layer, a very deep-seated, deep-rooted layer, including on the Republican side and including in this administration, of people who really are very deeply anti-Semitic. But, you know, if you’re wearing a Palestinian pin… which represents not just hatred for Israel, but death to America cries all around the country, burning American flags all around the country. It’s very hard to think that such a person really should be representing anybody on a presidential commission. And the fact that she said, and she said that she listens to Candace Owens daily, and she’d never heard anything she would consider anti-Semitic. So what does she consider anti-Semitic? Candace Owens literally I don’t mean current-day Nazi theories. She forwards, she repeats, she uses as fact, debunked things that were used by the Nazis themselves to justify the murder of all the Jews in the world, which is what their goal was. And Candace does this over and over on a regular basis, and she claims she’s never heard this, or she thinks that’s fine, that’s not anti-Semitic. So this is just a clearly evil person who shouldn’t be there. She also claimed to speak on behalf of Catholics, all Catholics. which is shocking because the church itself would reject what she says. There are so many American Catholics who are true supporters of Israel and friends to Jews. And it’s really, you know, I know a lot of Catholics. I’m pretty sure I’ve never met a Catholic who thinks it’s a good idea to deny the Holocaust and justify the Holocaust at the same time, which is exactly what Kansas does.
SPEAKER 08 :
too was that um the rabbi who was on the commission who spoke up and said listen i would never say i speak for all jews and for her to say she speaks for all catholics and saying that every catholic is somehow anti-zionist and as you said jeff i mean again none of us can speak for an entire religious group of people it’s a mixture of lots of different views within if you’re talking about that big of a net like all catholics But certainly, of all people, she shouldn’t be doing that. She’s not a religious leader within the Catholic Church. And even the rabbi who is a religious leader in Judaism said, I couldn’t speak on behalf of all Jews. I mean, so this idea that she was so bold in saying, you know what, to these folks who were testifying about the anti-Semitism they’ve experienced, so that’s gross on top of that, that she’s doing this to them, like as if what happened to them wasn’t real or isn’t serious. or has to only do with Israel or the kind of dual loyalties junk that we’ve heard from time to time is that she claims to speak on behalf of, you know, one of the largest denominations or Christian denominations in the world by saying they’re all anti-Zionist. And so with that aspect, you can be anti-Israel without being anti-Semitic. And we’ve debunked that a number of times. It’s a… It’s an easier word to say than anti-Jew. But that’s where she was going with this, Jeff. I mean, and she used this opportunity, which was supposed to be a hearing that they’re doing on multiple faith groups about the issues they’re facing, discrimination, anti-Semitism amongst the Jewish community. Then they move on and they’re going to do it about evangelicals. They’re going to do it about different Hindus, different religious groups. And that instead it turned it into this booing and shouting match amongst a group of people who are supposed to be doing what’s best for religious freedom in America.
SPEAKER 06 :
You know, it’s to be because it’s, I don’t know, Providence. This week, here in Jerusalem, and I’m going to be attending part of it, there is a meeting of Catholics and Jews. This is Catholics from the Holy See who are here because it’s the 60th anniversary of Nostra Aetate, which is a very seminal document 60 years ago by the Catholic Church, in which the Catholic Church apologizes for the role historically that, unfortunately, Catholics… the Catholic Church may have played in anti-Semitism, specifically references the horrors of the Holocaust, and it forges a new relationship going forward to exactly not have this kind of rhetoric. This is a throwback to the worst kind of rhetoric of medieval Europe that really America was founded to run away from. America was founded to support religious liberties, religious freedom, everything we fight for at the ACLJ. And so Catholics are coming here to Jerusalem, to the holy city shared by our faiths, to talk about building more and more and greater unity. These are people who work together. And if she claims she speaks for all Catholics, she doesn’t speak for the church at all.
SPEAKER 05 :
And Jeff, I think, once again, when you look at these things, she was counting the number of times that Israel had been mentioned and said… Since we’ve mentioned Israel a total of 17 times, are you willing to condemn what Israel has done in Gaza? Asking that of the panel, talking about their experiences with anti-Semitism, as well as saying that she would be considered an anti-Semite because she does not support Zionism and because she believes the Jews killed Jesus, which is ridiculous. uh a generations old anti-semitic trope and lie uh and i think anyone claiming to be a christian that believes that lie fundamentally this does not understand the gospel and the gospel message uh but jeff we only got about a minute left here i think that this person even though there’s not much time left on this commission it ends supposed to be july 4th that she should be kicked off this commission
SPEAKER 06 :
She should be, I mean, she should have nothing to do with this commission. And the truth is, we really need to go through and see who making policy or involved believes these kinds of things, because they’re not just inimical to Jews. They’re inimical to Christians. They’re inimical to a country of religious liberties, religious freedom, inimical to every value we stand for at the ACLJ, everything that Judeo-Christian values stand for, that Jews stand for, Christians stand for. Again, we don’t stand for, I’m not speaking for a people, I’m speaking for the values that officially animate our country and our society, and she opposes those values.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you, Jeff, for joining us. And Jordan, we’ll be back with talking more about this action from Senator Hagerty and how you can get involved with the ACLJ as we file today a FOIA lawsuit to the FBI and Department of Justice seeking records about Jack Smith’s involvement of going after those senators’ phone records.
SPEAKER 04 :
keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever. This is Seculo.
SPEAKER 05 :
Welcome back to Seculo’s second half hour of the broadcast. Go ahead and call us at 1-800-684-3110 if you want to talk about Jack Smith and Arctic Frost and what Senator Hagerty is doing, or if you want to talk about this Religious Liberty Commission that we talked about with Jeff in the last segment. Once again, it is just shocking when you read One, that this individual was placed on the commission and was able to then completely hijack the commission’s hearing yesterday on antisemitism by spewing antisemitic hate. And she said on the panel that she would question whether she would be considered an antisemite because she does not support Zionism and because she believes the Jews killed Jesus. And to that, I will answer her question. Yes, I believe she is antisemitic, Jordan. I think that she has bought into lies that are thousands of years old, that led to atrocities in our history against the Jewish people, that when we say never again, we talk about making sure that voices like this, we believe in freedom of speech, but we also have to combat speech with speech. We have to fight back against these kind of lies being spewed, and it shouldn’t be done from a commission, from a place of authority. That’s why I believe she should be off that commission.
SPEAKER 08 :
I mean, the fact that she said, you know, she’s a strong supporter of Candace Owens, who’s never said anything anti-Semitic. I mean, if you get a quick Google search, you can find a quick breakdown of just dozens and dozens of things that she said that are anti-Semitic. You turn it on randomly, and she’s talking about Jews. And sometimes she’ll laugh, try to laugh it off, but it’s her number one topic. And you see that too from Tucker Carlson more and more recently. You’re seeing it even from obviously the Nick Fuentes of the world. That’s all they do. But it’s this statement which shows the lack of theological understanding even amongst her faith. She doesn’t support Zionism because she believes the Jews killed Jesus. I mean, this was all set in motion by, if you believe our faith, by God for Jews to kill another Jew, that Jesus was Jewish, and also go along killing his disciples that were Jewish, many of them who were Jewish, to try and prevent the spread of the Christian faith. So the entire Christian faith that she believes, it says she believes, and it’s so important to her, its bedrock is Jews.
SPEAKER 05 :
And I think that one, and I see some comments on YouTube that are trying to kind of echo that lie, that when you believe the gospel, you believe that God ordained that. It was prophesied in the Old Testament that would happen. Who in reality killed Jesus was sinners because he came as a savior for those that are sinners. And also guess what? If you read the story, he rose from the dead. He conquered death. The beauty of the Christian gospel, as opposed to many other religions that are more retribution driven. When you think about how some theocratic governments are retribution driven, when they call out and say death to America, death to the Jews. Yeah, I’m talking about Iran. What’s different about their holy book is focused on retribution. The gospel, the story after the crucifixion and resurrection is solely focused on Christ in the redemption, in the work of that, in the spreading of the church. So I think that this is something that gets under my skin as a Christian, as a Protestant.
SPEAKER 08 :
It totally misses the point of the entire…
SPEAKER 05 :
Of the entire gospel. Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
And the entire hearing itself. This hearing was for all different religious groups to make sure that we have that religious freedom in America, which means religious tolerance, which means hopefully we get back to a point where we don’t have to have so much security around our places of worship. But we’ve seen them come under attack. And the number one places of worship that do come under attack are Jewish places of worship, even though it makes up such a small percent of our country and in the world that they are the number they face the most threats. But we’ve seen it happen to churches. We’ve seen it happen to other religious faiths. And again, that’s just the reality we live in. The purpose of this commission is to get us back to a point where there is respect, even if there’s disagreement among the actual faith, that there’s respect for the faith and there’s respect for your fellow Americans’ choice to believe or not to believe in the faith that they choose.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s right, and we will get into more of this. We didn’t plan to go that long on that, but it’s a very important topic, and that’s one of the very things that the ACLJ stands for and fights for every single day is to call out rhetoric like this and fight it where we can. Support the work of the ACLJ at ACLJ.org. Welcome back to Seculo. We’re joined now by senior advisor to the ACLJ, Rick Grinnell. And Rick, we talk about the many hats you wear currently and have worn in the past. But one of those that is extremely pertinent to this conversation today is former ambassador to Germany. Because we’re seeing a new poll out in Germany, and you highlighted this on your ex-account, that according to the survey, 65% of Germans see the U.S. as a threat to world peace and a, quote, lost cause at the moment. I wanted to get your insight on this, what maybe what the media is telling the German people and what in reality this means for us here at home.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, first of all, I should say that I would agree that we are a threat to the status quo, but certainly not to peace. President Trump has demonstrated that he is solving wars. Remember that Europe didn’t have a war when Donald Trump was president the first time. And when Joe Biden handed the White House back to President Trump, there was a raging war in Ukraine. So that is not on President Trump. He inherited that and he’s trying to fix it. Matter of fact, I would say in the first Trump administration, when I was ambassador to Germany, we saw the developing winds of a problem with Russia. And what did we do about it? We warned the Europeans, specifically Germany, that you should not be buying your energy from Russia. And Chancellor Merkel was pretty upfront. She said, well, we’re different than you. We can control Russia. And now we see what’s happened. The Germans have a war basically on their front stoop. And this is because they fed the beast in Russia. And so the warnings that President Trump has been giving the Europeans, specifically the Germans, has been highlighted over the last decade, and yet the Germans didn’t listen. And so now that they’re nervous about President Trump again, or they’re claiming that they somehow believe the Americans are a threat to peace, this just phony information. Our economy is doing better. We are warning the world of the consequences of bad policies and how that produces wars. President Trump has been solving wars, certainly we know in the Middle East, trying to do it in Europe. And I think this poll is just the media in Germany once again trying to control the people with fake news.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and once again, I feel like that line, a lost cause at the moment, should almost be worn as a badge of honor because we’ve seen what failed European foreign policy with the United States from many administrations, sometimes on the right as well. has led to. The relationship with Europe was not what it should be. The investment in NATO from the Europeans is not what it should be. And so perhaps the U.S. being a lost cause of getting back to what Germany would like as a status quo, not having to pay their fair share, being able to to essentially finance the war in Russia through their energy purchases, being a major client of the Russian state. I feel like, yeah, maybe we are a lost cause and perhaps that’s a good thing for the world order, not necessarily the negative that they’re trying to portray it.
SPEAKER 02 :
Look, I think that the lost cause angle is an interesting angle because clearly the Europeans are frustrated with American businesses, that somehow we’re not following these very strict rules on freedom of expression. The whole entity of Brussels, the politicians that come together, all of the different levels of bureaucracies in Brussels that control the European Union, they are very frustrated with American businesses. They don’t like the status quo of businesses being able to do what they want, say what they want, and kind of having this capitalistic viewpoint. They want socialism. They want to make sure that somehow rules are in place against corporations from having just free expression, especially when it comes to social media or media companies. And so there is a frustration from Europeans that somehow they want to do more when they hear someone saying something bad. that they would say is hate speech, for instance. They want to crack down on social media a lot more than what American companies are. But I have to say, as much as I love Europe, I vacation there regularly. I think it’s an amazing place. The business community in America are not choosing to go to Europe anymore. I think Europe is dying as a business location. Instead, businesses are going to the Middle East or they’re going to places that are not in the EU. So Brussels has a problem. Socialism has a problem in Europe. All these bureaucratic rules are strangling companies and our companies are using their feet to say we’re going elsewhere. So the status quo in Europe is absolutely not working. up.
SPEAKER 08 :
You talked about the EU Rick I mean we know that the EU is looking at elections coming up in places like Hungary and there’s a lot of concern there on the ground in places like Hungary that these elections the pressure that will come in from the EU especially to the people there to voters they’re saying basically you elect Orban again then we’re going to be withholding funds you elect somebody else anybody else and EU funds will flow into your country and so they’re trying to reach to younger voters who may be first-time voters or thought, hey, life was getting better under Orban, but hey, we don’t want to be expelled or basically cut off from EU support or funding. And so we see the EU playing domestic politics with leaders who are duly elected in their countries because they happen to be conservative or work with President Trump.
SPEAKER 02 :
Look, I think the Hungarian policies have produced a stronger Europe. Unfortunately, Brussels hasn’t listened. If you just look at the facts, the EU has gotten weaker and smaller because of failed immigration policies. And we know this because the Brits through Brexit said, If Europe is not going to be able to control immigration, we’re out of here. So because of the lack of enforcement, because of the weak policies on immigration, the EU lost a member, have a lot of money that they’re spending to try to play catch up with law enforcement issues. And they’ve become a weaker entity simply because they haven’t been able to get a handle on immigration. Orban and Hungary, on the other hand, were the warning signs. They were the ones saying, don’t do this. It’s not good for Europe. I think Orban was right.
SPEAKER 05 :
Rick, thank you so much for joining us today. Always great insight from you. And once again, folks, when you watch this broadcast, you hear about all the work the ACLJ does. You also hear about stories like this and topics like this that they’re not going to make it maybe in your social media feed. They’re not going to make it onto some of the national broadcast you watch, but they’re extremely important. And we follow the implications of national security here. We follow the implications of how our relationships with the European Union and those countries impact you. And also how it impacts our work at the ECLJ, the European Center for Law and Justice. We also have that luxury to be able to talk about stories like these because of your support. We can make the decision on what we think is important for you to hear about that day and give you insight on that may not be hitting the mainstream media or broadcast news, but it’s because you support us. We are not ad supported. We’re not ad driven. This is how the ACLJ operates. And Jordan, once again, just to be able to bring segments like that is something unique that we can offer on our broadcast side while all the legal work is going on as well.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, that’s right, to get you educated and up to speed on issues that might not always be a front page, but with experts that you trust so that as you see this information, you know where to go. You know to go to the ACLJ. You know to go to this broadcast to get the correct information so that you’re best informed. And again, when people have questions about it, they can call in at 1-800-684-3110. On all of these issues, we’re not afraid to take them on head-on, whether it is these issues involving… anti-Semitism breaking out at the White House event or the issues going on in the EU. I mean, I know we’re in discussions right now with our European Center for Law and Justice team about going over as election monitors. in Hungary and putting together a team from Europe the United States of real experts to make sure that the EU isn’t engaged in any funny business and that the elections are free and fair in Hungary because we know how bad that Brussels and we say that meaning the entire most of the European Union wants to see Orban gone they want someone back who kisses the European Union ring That’s exactly what they want. And so when you have a leader who has got a relationship with the United States president and has got one which is flourishing, that’s when, again, you see the EU get involved and why we are going to have a team there. And what we’ll get more into that is that that election comes closer. But we’re already working to be on the ground to make sure we can push back because we know what happens. If Orban wins, the left will say it was a stolen election. That’s what they do anytime conservatives are winning in Europe. They go right to the stolen election monitor. They don’t have any evidence of it, but they say it’s a stolen election. So I think the more people we can put on the ground to show you how free and fair the elections are there, you can vote for who you want to without fear, that pushes back on a narrative which they just run in a headline and assume that everyone will just believe that, you know what, in this country you can really only vote for one person, and that’s why… It’s a dictatorship. It’s not really a democracy or a democratic republic. So we’re looking all around the world to stand with those conservative leaders who are willing to stand with us and the United States of America will.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s right. And if you want to join us in the final segment of the broadcast, call us at 1-800-684-3110. We’ll be right back. Welcome back to Sekulow, final segment of the broadcast. And look who decided to show up. I’m here. Look at that. You can’t go a day without me. That’s right. Logan’s here. We are going to go to the phones. If you want to be on air, call us at 1-800-684-3110. But we’re going to go to Candy calling from Georgia on line one. Candy, you’re on Sekulow.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes. I am disappointed with Candace Owen. She used to be Charlie Kirk’s friend. On fire against evil and fire for God. But now it looks like she compromised herself. And I hate to disillusion her, but Jesus is Jewish. And so are his 12 disciples and the ones that got converted first.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s very bizarre. I mean, you could look anywhere because this speaker who’s on this commission said, you know, she’s never said anything anti-Semitic and you could just pull up list of things. I mean, she promoted the blood libel conspiracy that Jews use the blood of Christian children for ritual purposes on her broadcast before. She claimed that the family of Leo Frank, who was a man lynched. by a mob in Georgia in 1913 after being wrongly accused of murdering a young girl, that they believed in pedophilia and incest as sacramental rights, and this is her exact quotes, and that would commit these acts, things that would normally be termed blood libel were actually happening. She’s engaged in Holocaust distortion and denial. And the reason why, this is her quote, the particular episode is so detrimental to Zionism, is because they polluted Americans’ minds to believe that we must defend Israel out of morality and the evils of the Holocaust. At some point, she decided to take this turn. And it seems like it was kind of… lined up with when she decided to double down with Kanye West and start defending him now he’s come back and apologized for some of these statements and said you know he was he was on this kind of wasn’t on the medication he should have been on it was kind of having this breakdown and he’s apologized yeah She is not.
SPEAKER 07 :
I have one hot topic I’ll decide to bring in right as I come in the last segment, but you know. We did it for you. I actually have always said this about Kanye specifically, which is I always felt bad. I think that he is someone who is incredibly talented, who had a lot of people surrounding him. who weren’t helping him.
SPEAKER 08 :
Um, justifying it, who, who were right.
SPEAKER 07 :
And I do not like that in celebrity culture in general. I certainly don’t like it now in the conservative world, which is instead of, you can just call it out for what it is. And there can be some reckoning with, uh, your belief systems. And some of these, again, uh, This goes beyond anti-Israel rhetoric. I mean, we’ve all watched it now. It’s not like we know what we’re talking about here. And it’s not just her, but she’s certainly maybe the big one of it. And like you said, it did change multiple years ago. I mean, I’d been at events with her before. I had seen her one-on-one with Ben Shapiro in certain events and everything seemed cool and fine and everyone was cool together. What I don’t like is that The influence is there so strongly because I see people being manipulated into believing a lot of this. It’s not really necessarily only about the one person. I don’t really care about Candace Owens. I don’t really care about Kanye West. What I care about is when Candace Owens has… one of the top podcasts in the world. Millions of people are listening and they’re not all listening thinking, oh, this is kind of a fun conspiracy theory. They’re thinking, oh, this is what I believe. This is what I’m going to go to bat for. And this is what I’m going to lose friends and family over.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and once again, this all started, Logan, because we were talking about this member of the Religious Liberty Commission, Carrie Bowler, who really hijacked a hearing that she was a commissioner on to make recommendations to the president on securing religious liberty in this country and started going after those that were testifying there. about the experiences of anti-Semitism and how to combat it. And it included people like a UCLA law student, it was a Yeshiva president, a Harvard alum who we have seen a lot of, Shabos Christenbaum has kind of made the rounds about his experience on campus, as well as Bruce Pearl that were there. And she turned it on them saying, we have heard Israel mentioned 17 times, will you condemn what they’ve done in Gaza? And said that, They define anti-Semitism too broadly, because would she be considered an anti-Semite because she doesn’t support Zionism and believes that Jews killed Jesus? She is spewing the thousand-year-old tropes over and over again, and then… acting like this is something that people are shocked at and also says she has never heard a single thing from Candace Owens that is anti-Semitic and she listens daily. I listened to one episode last week that wasn’t even on a topic I thought would be related to it to hear what was going on in Candace’s world. And it… It was a swerve immediately because it was only anti-Semitic rhetoric.
SPEAKER 07 :
I think that there is a case to be made that I totally disagree with, by the way, of people not supporting the political state of Israel, having issues with some of the stuff they’ve done. But why does it always then have to jump to from, I disagree with their politics or I disagree with the war. You can be anti-war. I don’t necessarily, I am not on your side in that, but I understand if you feel that way. I don’t like it, but I understand. I think you’re ignorant and you don’t understand the situation. But Wyatt always then jumps to their hiding the body of a mythical creature that is then being gonna control the weather and the end times. And this is what’s gonna happen. And they’re stopping Jesus from coming back because they’re controlling. I mean, this is why it gets spun to the point where you go, oh no, no, what you’re just saying. is antisemitism in its most pure form because it’s just conspiracy-based nonsense. It has nothing to do with your feelings on the people of Gaza. It has nothing to do with Palestinians. It has nothing to do with war. It only has to do with this bizarre infatuation you have with a very small percentage of the world.
SPEAKER 08 :
right and she tried to say that Jews were in control of the slave trade and even historians have said it’s such a miniscule part of that of those actions and those wrongs that they weren’t even a player and so she takes that any kind of trope you can use oh they were the head they came up with the slave trade they eat children they’re pedophiles they’re this they’re that I mean it’s like one thing after another after another and you wonder why there’s so much hatred and violence
SPEAKER 05 :
targeting jewish communities right here in the united states of america well and once again we believe in free speech we believe that free speech laws are the protections of free speech are there to uh protect even speech you disagree with that’s why we have to combat this kind of disgusting rhetoric with more speech and drown it out we always have to also make sure that we’re not conflating all of this under one banner right um look at all the conversation that led around the
SPEAKER 07 :
super bowl and the halftime show the super bowl let’s not conflate those two things together which is you can have a problem with all of it right you can have a problem with none of it you don’t have to say well i’m a conservative therefore i don’t like bad bunny and also i don’t like jews uh you know like there can be a conversation to be had of i think christian music or or maybe we should have gone more country with the with that’s a who cares conversation. The problem is we’re starting to paint with such a broad brush and it becomes this overall racist overtone that the conservatives have got to shake out of. They’ve got to shake out of it or you’re going to lose in a dramatic fashion. And by the way, I don’t believe that most of you are racist who are saying a lot of these things. I believe maybe if you’re talking the way that she does about Jewish people, maybe you are racist. But that you’re gonna get labeled that way. And the American people stand for a lot of things. They’ll stand for a lot of free speech. You know what we’re pretty good about right now? We’ve been pretty good about for the last, I don’t know, 50, 75, 80 years, is fighting back against racism. So don’t become the party that feels like you’re celebrating racism.
SPEAKER 05 :
And once again, that is why we believe that someone like that shouldn’t be on a presidential commission. on religious liberty. And we have been warning about this seeping in to the conservative movement. We’ve talked with Congressman Jared Moskowitz about how we don’t need to let what happened on the left happen on the right. We have to fight back. And your support of the ACLJ goes to that mission, as well as all the other things we’ve talked about today, including these lawsuits, FOIA lawsuits that we are filing today on the Arctic frost spying on senators. Donate today at ACLJ.org.
