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On this Thursday edition of Rush to Reason, John Rush welcomes Dr. Kelly Victory and Steve House for a fast-moving, no-punches-pulled hour. They explore the promising anti-cancer potential of the veterinary drug fenbendazole—a dog dewormer—and its human cousin, mebendazole, both showing striking results in cancer treatment. So why hasn’t Big Pharma jumped on board? Because there’s no money in cheap cures.
Dr. Kelly unpacks the science behind these antiparasitic drugs, their safety, their effect on tumor suppression, and how the FDA and emergency use authorizations shaped the pandemic response. Steve House adds insights into how corporate profit motives have overtaken
SPEAKER 17 :
This is Rush to Reason. You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes. With your host, John Rush. My advice to you is to do what your parents did.
SPEAKER 08 :
Get a job, sir. You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same, and there’s a big difference.
SPEAKER 11 :
Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 08 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 09 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush. Presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 15 :
And it’s Thursday. Hope you’re all having a great week so far. Ending things out as we get things wound down here, heading into this Thursday edition. Dr. Kelly Victory joining us as we do most every week. So welcome, Dr. Kelly. How are you?
SPEAKER 04 :
I’m doing great. Always good to be with you guys.
SPEAKER 15 :
Always a joy. Got all three of us back today. Steve House with us as well. Steve, welcome.
SPEAKER 03 :
Glad to be here. I am in a cab in New York City. I’ll try to minimize the noise, but I am happy to be with you.
SPEAKER 15 :
Well, we appreciate you taking time for us and joining us. And for all of you listening, if you’re joining us just for the first time, and some of you listen from all over the country, which we appreciate greatly, you can find more about Dr. Kelly on our website, RushToReason.com. There’s an entire page dedicated there. We’ve been doing this hour in this week. Thursday’s in this hour, I should say. For the last five years or so, Steve House was very instrumental in making that happen, which I appreciate. greatly and we’ve covered a lot of topics over the last five years but one that is uh and we’ll talk about a few things today too for all of you listening when it comes to just being healthy and and the results of covet and the vaccine and different things along those lines but i wanted to start with dr kelly we sent a article around to each other this week you guys actually started this one talking about and i’m sure i’m going to butcher this name fenbendazole am i saying that right
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, fenbendazole is a very well-known antiparasitic drug. Fenbendazole is a cousin of a drug or the same class as mebendazole. Mebendazole is the one that is FDA-approved for use in humans. Fenbendazole is currently FDA-approved only for use in animals. But they are very, very similar drugs. They are antiparasitics. not unlike ivermectin. The reason that both fenbendazole and mebendazole have gotten so much sort of press recently is because they appear to have really remarkable impact on cancer, on quite a number of different cancers through different mechanisms. And so many people have been using these drugs off-labeled. for the treatment of cancers either in combination with standard chemotherapy or on its own or with ivermectin and other supplements rather than standard chemotherapy.
SPEAKER 15 :
Okay, being a non-medical expert that I am not, and you guys all know that, and Steve and Dr. Kelly have far more experience in this area than I do, but a lot of folks listening don’t either. So I try to be that go-between and ask questions that I think our audience would ask, and Dr. Kelly, and for those of you listening, you can text in and ask those questions as well, 307-282-22. But the question I have, Dr. Kelly, is why? Why does this make a difference on the cancer sides of things? What is it doing?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, a couple of different mechanisms. One, for example, is that fenbendazole in particular turns back on a tumor suppressor gene that has been negatively impacted by the mRNA shots that many people were given for COVID. It turns that gene back on and allows it to suppress tumors that way. It also interrupts what are called microtubules, which is a key component of the growth of cancer cells And both mebendazole and fenbendazole disrupt those microtubules and therefore don’t allow the cancer cells to grow and they kill them off. There are multiple other mechanisms, but those are the two primary ones. We’ve been using drugs like ivermectin in the veterinary world to treat cancer for decades, many decades. This isn’t new research in humans. It’s simply been suppressed, frankly, by big pharma because there isn’t any money to be made in these drugs because they’re relatively inexpensive drugs. The great thing about them is they seem to potentiate, meaning they improve the effectiveness of chemotherapy should people choose to go that route. Ivermectin, fenbendazole, and mebendazole are almost side effect free. I have not had a patient, a single patient, at standard doses that’s ever had a negative side effect, let alone the sorts of horrific side effects that you get with standard chemotherapy. You know, with your hair falling out, your stomach lining, intestinal lining shedding, nausea, vomiting, fatigue, low white bloods, all of those things that go along with chemotherapy. None of those things happen with these drugs, and so I do think that they ultimately will become an adjunct, if not the sole treatment, for many cancers.
SPEAKER 15 :
Okay. Steve, I’m going to roll this to you because I think Dr. Kelly explained a lot there a moment ago, and the question I have is, and this is really where it more comes even into your world as much as Dr. Kelly’s, given the fact that what she just said is true, and I believe it to be true, and… yet pharma doesn’t want some of these treatments being done because there’s quote-unquote, you know, not the kind of money in there that needs to be. But I thought in the medical community, Steve, Dr. Steve, I thought in the medical community that we were supposed to be looking out for the good of the whole, the good of the patients and so on, and money is secondarily. I mean, I understand that’s not the way it is, but isn’t that the way it should be?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it is the way it should be. I mean, I learned a long time ago. I started out working in computer technology and banks and went to healthcare and realized that money was more important than people after I made that transition. You know, you got to stock investors in pharma companies and things like that. I think that the two sort of clinical things I think about with Ben Bendisol, and I want Kelly’s opinion on this as well, is that first of all, if you’re out there and you hear about it, people are going to be critical of it because it’s literally referred to as a dog dewormer. And so much like the whole hydroxychloroquine bleach thing that happened to Trump when he was president the first time.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, you have to just set that aside and say, I don’t care what its original purpose was for. Right. Here’s the second part, though, for me, which is it appears to me that if something is anti-parasitic, so a.k.a. it works against parasites. Okay. That Cancer, in some way, needs to have a concept that acts a bit like a parasite in your body. And so for an anti-parasite to work on a cancer cell, and of course what Kelly was referring to, turning on certain genes and things like that, obviously make sense. But it just seems like between ivermectin, which was taken for river blindness, and that was parasitic-based, and this was parasitic-based. Kelly, is there a correlation between parasites and cancer cells?
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, I get asked that a lot, Steve, and I do not believe that there’s an association. One of the problems with the fact that these medications, which were first introduced as antiparasitics, the fact that they work against cancer, is that people have jumped to the conclusion, oh, well, then cancer must be a parasite. That is not the case. There’s no indication that that is the case. In the same way, you know, let’s just review that 30% of all medications are prescribed or used for an indication other than what they were first prescribed. you know, put on the market for how, why they were first developed everything from Viagra to, you know, propranolol medications that are used for blood pressure. We now use for migraines medication, you know, that Viagra was a blood pressure medication. And now everybody and their brother takes it for erectile dysfunction. It’s not because erectile dysfunction is related to blood pressure problems. They are a different mechanism of action by which it works. Rogaine that people use for baldness was initially developed for prostatic hypertrophy. And it’s not because baldness is related to problems with the prostate. They’re totally different mechanisms of action. So 30% of all medications written are used for a different indication. And the other thing I need to clarify is that when a medication gets FDA approved, when we say medication is FDA approved. That means the FDA has put their stamp of approval. It said that this medication is felt to be safe for use in humans. If it is safe for use in humans for a parasite or for high blood pressure or for prostate hypertrophy, it doesn’t become unsafe if you use it for something else.
SPEAKER 15 :
Very true.
SPEAKER 04 :
Very true. The medication is safe. The only thing that the FDA, quote, approval impacts is what the manufacturer is allowed to market it for. So if a medication is not FDA approved for hair loss. then the manufacturer can’t go out there and market it. But they can only say this works for, you know, prostatic hypertrophy. They can’t say it also works for hair loss. But it only impacts the marketing. A doctor can write a prescription for that medication once it’s FDA approved, can write a prescription for any reason they want to. They can use it off-label. That has been a cornerstone of medicine. And the first time ever in my career that Where I saw that interrupted was with ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine during COVID. First time in my life that the FDA pharmacist, you know, people started getting and saying, you can’t write for that. It’s not FDA approved. I’m saying hydroxychloroquine was FDA approved for use in humans in 1942. Hmm. OK, you know, we have decades and decades and decades of experience with that drug. And doctors can write a prescription for hydroxychloroquine for anything, including COVID.
SPEAKER 15 :
Which, you know, we talked about a lot of this through that whole time frame. For those of you listening, maybe, you know, tuning in for the very first time, we talked about all of these things back when you could take those things and help yourself in that COVID situation and so on. So we went through a lot of that back in the day. And all I can think of, Dr. Kelly and Steve, is that, you know, they didn’t want you doing anything outside of their protocols because if it was – and we’ve talked about this – if it was found that there were other cures for COVID – outside of this quote-unquote mRNA treatment vaccine, whatever you want to call it. It’s not really a vaccine, but, you know, the shot, the jab. If that were found to be the case, that there were other treatments, they would not have been able to fast-track and get some of the approvals they got for the mRNA vaccine. Am I correct, Dr. Kelly?
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s 100% correct. Specifically, John, the EUA, the Emergency Use Authorization, was predicated on the fact that there, quote, were no other treatments. That’s how you get the Emergency Use Authorization. If there were other treatments available, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, steroids, all these other things, then the EUA would have become null and void. And that was the way that they got those shots into the arms of so many millions of people, because hopefully everybody’s aware by now, those shots were not FDA approved. They were only available under emergency use authorization, specifically because they had not gone through the onerous testing process. The years and years of trials and safety data and all of that. So they needed to deep six any meaningful conversation about these alternative therapies. Yep. That’s right.
SPEAKER 15 :
Because for all of you listening, if it would have been found to have been. True. And if more and more people had been found to have been treated and had positive outcomes and so on, and Steve, we talked about this even in the weeks where Dr. Kelly wasn’t able to join us. The reality is if that were to have happened, it shot down their emergency use authorization, meaning that there were other ways to do this. And once again, we go back to the money sides of things. At the end of the day, big pharma doesn’t make their billions of dollars, correct?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, yeah, I mean, can you imagine, I don’t think we’ll ever know, but how much money was spent trying to get rid of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin during that period of time? Millions upon millions. Yes, probably billions of dollars because they needed to do something different. um to make that happen and you know it’s it’s really really ridiculous when you think about the total of what happened and you know there’s probably repurposed drugs that we don’t even know about yet that will do things for cancer that will do things for helping people who are post-covid we just have to continue down that pathway and not let somebody tell us we can’t do it
SPEAKER 15 :
All right. This is a great segue. We’ll come right back. Those of you that have questions, which I got a couple that have come in, please text me 307-282-22. We’ll come right back. Somebody, by the way, that was affected by all of this in very much the same way that we are talking is Dr. Scott Faulkner, because he was fired for actually prescribing the very things that we are talking about right now, prescribing it outside of the network that he was actually in. to his own particular patient. Long story short, he ended up suing and won and decided not to go back into that end of things because of just how bad things are that we talk about this on a routine basis. So he went and started his own concierge practice. Talk to Dr. Scott today, 303-663-6990.
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SPEAKER 15 :
And we are back on this Thursday, first hour edition with Dr. Kelly Victory and Steve House. Thank you all for listening. We appreciate it. Text line again, 307-200-8222. Send us your messages and we’ll get those answered as quickly as we can. Dr. Kelly, somebody did text in regarding the topic that we’re covering right now. Is garlic a good parasite killer?
SPEAKER 04 :
I have not read any studies that would indicate that. I’m not saying it’s not. I haven’t read any studies. Garlic certainly has some great health benefits. It’s a strong antioxidant. It’s been associated with some anti-cancer properties. It has some antibacterial and antiviral properties. So I wouldn’t be surprised if it ended up being a good antiparasitic. But I can’t say that definitively because I have not seen any studies that would show that.
SPEAKER 15 :
By the way, for all of you listening, I’m not Dr. Kelly, but I do read a lot of things, and there’s a lot of things that get sent my way, and I get a lot of updates in the medical community. Steve, I’m sure you do as well along those lines, even though I’m not a doctor. When you get into this space, you just end up with lots of things that end up hitting your inbox and so on. Dr. Kelly, I agree. I’ve not seen anything. Steve, have you seen anything along those lines at all?
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, I’ve generally associated garlic with vampire killing and bad date. There you go. Bad breath. Bad date ending, right? That’s about it.
SPEAKER 15 :
Okay, leading me, too. I don’t want to change topics completely, but this is one that was asked last week after we got off air. Somebody had a late question. It came in. We just didn’t have enough time to get to it, so I thought, well, let’s go ahead and get to it now. Actually, I take that back. I think it came in the day after. Anyways, regardless, the question came in, and this is one where I’ll just say it straight up. I am about as skeptical on things. You guys know me. I’m pretty skeptical on things, especially when it comes to things that I really have a hard time pinpointing Is there any validity to this or not? So a question came in. Is there anything to all of this grounding stuff that’s out there, Dr. Kelly? Grounding your sheets, grounding yourself. There’s now grounded blankets and beds and so on. People walk barefoot out in the grass just to get grounded. Is there any validity to that at all?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, you know, I will tell you, it’s really just my opinion. I can’t quote any science on it because I don’t believe there is any. I can tell you my opinion. I don’t believe that there’s any validity to grounding inanimate objects. I don’t see how I would love somebody to explain the supposed science behind putting a pillow or a sheet or a comforter or whatever on the grass. I believe that there’s huge validity to people getting out in nature and walking barefoot in the grass. There’s something, I’ll tell you, it’s like riding a bicycle for me. It brings me back to my childhood. We so rarely do it. We so rarely go and walk. When’s the last time you ran through a sprinkler? It’s the same thing.
SPEAKER 15 :
Well, and I’m adjusting them quite often, actually. That’s a different reason.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. But there’s something very liberating about it. The one thing is when people are grounding, I’ll tell you what they generally aren’t doing. They generally aren’t on their dang phone.
SPEAKER 06 :
True.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay? They’re not on their phone. They aren’t scrolling through Instagram and Facebook and Twitter. They are really just enjoying, you know, it’s no different than I think than running your toes through the sand, walking on the beach.
SPEAKER 06 :
Good point.
SPEAKER 04 :
We’ve lost those simple points. And I would suggest that people really do what they need to do to get back to it. I’ve said on previous shows, and it’s the God’s truth, I hike every single day in the summer in Colorado, seven days a week. I think I’ve gone 26 days in a row. I missed a day because I was traveling. I go every day. And what I’m not doing that it’s only a four and a half mile hike. But what I’m not doing is I’m not on my phone. In fact, there’s no dang cell service where I go.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right.
SPEAKER 04 :
I’m not I’m away. I’m out in nature. I’m looking around. I think through the problems of the day. I managed to come up with a better, you know, better response to an issue I’ve been having. And I think so. I guess that’s a long answer to the question, which is I believe there’s huge validity to grounding, maybe not for the reasons that are purported, you know, but getting out in nature, taking your shoes off, being unencumbered by that and having a little time, you know, quiet time with the earth, I think is very good for what ails us.
SPEAKER 15 :
OK, I can’t disagree with any of that. Steve, your thoughts. And again, you get a lot of this information into you as well. And I’m sure you get people that ask you these questions like like I do, partly because of what we do here on air on a weekly basis. And again, I just I haven’t tried it, so I can’t prove. any of this, but I also wonder at times, I do believe this, I think your mind is a powerful thing, and I think it can do all sorts of things to yourself. In other words, even that power of positive thinking, you know me, I’m very grounded in my Christian faith, but I do believe that negativity does exactly that and can create all sorts of negative things in your life where if somebody thinks that, hey, I’m grounded, I’m going to wake up and have better sleep because of that, well, do they because of the grounding or just because they thought they’re going to have a better night’s sleep in the first place?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I mean, I personally have had grounded sheets, you know, that plug into the ground spot in an outlet in your house. I frequently, frequently go outside and walk on my bare foot for no other reason than to be grounded. I don’t know if it’s, you know, specifically as true as people say it do, but what can it hurt? Because, frankly, you walk around with static electricity all the time. I don’t think your body was meant to store electricity. We’re not really supposed to be a battery, so why not? But actually we are. Yeah. I guess that’s true. We are. I mean, we have all kinds of properties.
SPEAKER 15 :
By the way, really quick for all of you listening. The only reason I know that is as a young technician, because I saw a technician actually show on a multimeter how you could actually prove how much millivolts you actually have in your body. And I always thought that was fun. And even to this day, going kind of back to Dr. Kelly a moment ago, I’ll still act like a kid sometimes and do that just to show people how much electricity you actually have in your body. Yeah. And I get what you’re saying, Steve. I’m not arguing that, but in a way, we do store electricity. We are electrified, I guess you could say, quote-unquote.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, yeah, the question is, just like any circuit I ever worked on as an engineer, if I put too much electricity through it, it ended up degrading it. True. Degrading the circuit, making resistors less resistant, things like that. So I think there’s an appropriate amount, but fundamentally, I’ve adhered to this concept for a long time. I just told somebody in the last month, who was having certain struggles. I said, so what routines can I get into? And like Kelly said, in a way, it’s like walk out every morning on your bare feet, move your toes in the grass, feel connected to the earth, and just do that. Just do that. And that was one of the things I said, and I said it just in the last month. to someone who needed kind of a peppy health improvement, I guess. Yep.
SPEAKER 15 :
And Dr. Kelly, again, I’m like you. I don’t have any reports one way or the other. I do think that in some cases, hey, if it works for you and you enjoy it and you feel more connected and you feel healthier out of it, again, I don’t know whether that’s because of know what you’re thinking mentally or whether there’s something physically happening now back to the whole we are you know we store electrons and we have them running through our body it’s how our heart beats and so on can we build up too much and does that need to be offloaded or does our body just regulate that automatically anyways
SPEAKER 04 :
I believe that your body really just regulates that on a regular basis. If you have too much buildup, all you have to do is touch something and you’ll get that static shot and it gets released. I really believe that this grounding concept works. is based more on the importance of feeling connected to something outside yourself and to feeling connected to something that is big. Part of what I will tell you is if you are not – I’m like you. I happen to be very grounded in my Christian faith. But even if you are not a Christian, I think it’s critically important for people to have a belief and a confidence that there is something greater than themselves. There is a greater power. There is a divine power that is guiding this universe and your life. And I think that that’s much, to me, what grounding is all about. It’s understanding that there is something… You know, the Earth is very powerful. We are a tiny speck on this planet. And grounding somehow brings you back to that.
SPEAKER 15 :
And Steve, for me, maybe because of and there may be something to some of this, because for me personally, I mean, I think Kelly’s the same way. I’ve worked so much. outside you know in things itself i mean not really having you know i mean i do desk work and things like that don’t get me wrong i sit in front of this microphone x amount of hours out of the day but outside of that i do all sorts of things out and around you know my house outside in my barn working on things vehicles etc so and all of those things by the way for those of you listening You’re typically grounding yourself every single time you touch something that’s actually then also touching the ground. And whether you’re actually in rubberized shoes or not, your hands are touching those things, especially if it’s steel, that are now grounding back down to the earth. So maybe, Steve, for me, I’ve never really noticed much difference in some of that because I’m doing that on an ongoing basis anyways. Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, yeah, you would notice the difference if you had a crescent wrench in your hand and you were working on the positive side of a bed. Oh, yes, you would. And you had your wedding ring on and you grounded it against the frame while you had it on that positive. Other than that, I think you’re right. I mean, I think it is a little bit about what people’s mindset is. I mean, you know, Kelly’s discussion about hiking Colorado. I mean, hiking wherever. I mean, getting outside. That’s part of the reason why 8,000 Steps is so important is, in some respects, you’re out there getting yourself clear. You’re getting your mind cleaned up. Right, right. It’s all positive.
SPEAKER 15 :
Can’t argue with that. No, and so for that person that texted in or asked that question, I should say, messaged in, I think it was actually through an e-mail. Again, I don’t have any thoughts one way or the other whether it works, whether it doesn’t. I’m kind of one of those, Dr. Kelly, going back to you before we take a break, where, you know what, if it works for you and you’re not spending a boatload of money and it’s not something that’s inconvenient, and by the way, you’re not shoving it down the next person’s throat because until you have some validity, that’s really hard to do as well. But you know what, if you’ve got a routine and it works for you and you’re happy and you’re healthy and you’re getting all these other things in at the same time, then you know what, Dr. Kelly, so be it. it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Exactly. And at some point, and I, you know, I don’t mean to be dismissive at all of this, but at some point it doesn’t really matter why it works, if it works. Okay. You know, if whatever it is, it doesn’t really matter. If green noise, I happen to like this stuff called green noises, I’m a lousy sleeper. And I turn it on and whether it works because it actually is you know, changing the way my brain waves are, or if it’s just because it’s drowning out the sound of something, you know, it doesn’t really matter as long as it works to help me sleep better. And I’d say the same thing, whether it has to do with just putting your phone down and being away, whether you’re grounding and you feel better and it brings you back to a happy memory of your childhood, or because it’s something that you do with somebody who you care about, whether it’s your spouse or your children or a friend. Whatever reason it is that it helps you feel better, I think that’s a good thing.
SPEAKER 15 :
I can’t disagree. Great segue. We’ll come back here in a moment. Yeah, go ahead, Steve. Absolutely. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think it’s important to note that if there’s something out there, green noise or whatever it is. It keeps Dr. Kelly’s brain from going out of whack or off the track. We’re probably all better off for that, right?
SPEAKER 15 :
Absolutely. Yeah, if we can be like her, we’d be all better off. Absolutely. Absolutely. Our Roof Savers of Colorado coming up next, folks. And again, I say this a lot, but I mean, if you have any issues at all roof-wise, please give them a call. They can extend the life of your current roof. They also can help you with any storm damage you’ve got. If you’ve got a commercial roof, they can work on, fix, repair, inspect, whatever you need there as well. And they work with all insurance companies. Think you need a new roof?
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SPEAKER 07 :
The best export we have is common sense. You’re listening to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 15 :
All right, we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Dr. Kelly, a question just came in, and this is one where I think we’ve talked about this in the past, or maybe I’ve done it in some of the other episodes I do on Wednesdays for Health and Wellness, and that is, can stress cause cognitive decline?
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, I think the negative impact of stress is almost unlimited. We know that it can cause heart disease, it certainly can cause gastrointestinal issues, can cause autoimmune problems, absolutely is linked to an increased risk of cancer. And I think there’s no question that it can cause cognitive decline. I’m not saying that it causes Alzheimer’s or causes Parkinson’s or causes one of those, but it can absolutely interfere with people’s ability to think clearly and to be functioning at their best cognitively.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, and I’ve done different interviews with folk whereby brain experts and things along those lines, Dr. Kelly, where there’s a lot of studies now being done on Alzheimer’s, dementia, things like that, whereby there are some folks out there that I interview on a routine basis that say there is definitely a direct correlation between, especially those that have a family history or a tendency to be in that camp, I guess you could say, that that stress just adds to what they already have as a negative going into it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely. And we also know, I mean, there are many, many studies that would show that there are certain things that improve cognitive function and delay the onset of Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s. Things like doing the daily crossword puzzle, playing games, social interaction, physical exercise, all of those things. The study we were talking about a week or so ago about doing the 7,000 steps study, showed a remarkable decrease in your risk of developing Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s simply by walking 7,000 steps. So, yes, I think that there’s no question that these things and certainly stress has a profound negative impact on almost every body system.
SPEAKER 15 :
Good to know. Steve, I did get a text message in from somebody that said they did grounding sheets about a year ago and claim they’ve slept better since. Now, I did ask how, and I’m just curious, not to be mean or come back and be a naysayer, but I’d like to know how. And again, I’m trying to get back to the whole do they feel like it’s the sheets or was it strictly a mindset or are the sheets made a little bit differently to maybe their – little more comfortable and i’ll give everybody an example so i’m i am one of those individuals where i don’t like super slick sheets i actually like the old uh the higher the cotton the better i mean to the point where you almost feel like you’re sleeping on cardboard sheets i can remember those you know growing up with my grandmother and maybe for me it’s because of Dr. Kelly talking earlier that when I sleep in those types of sheets, it just makes me sleep better, I think, because it takes me back in a time where your grandmother would tuck you. You’d spend the night over at her house. She’d tuck you in bed. And I remember the smell and the feel and so on. And maybe that’s why I feel like I sleep better with these particular sheets than I did prior. So I guess for me, I’m wondering, Steve, and even this person listening, is it the grounding or is it that state of mind?
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t think we’re going to know, but here, let me just throw a piece out at you that I’ve tried myself, but I think has done wonders for me, which is, you know, those nights where maybe you’ve got an early flight or something and you get to bed a little bit later than normal and you crawl into bed and you go, Oh my God, I only got five and a half hours. I only got four hours to go. you sleep terribly on nights like that. And what I did, the advice I got was just forget about that. I mean, it’s like whatever sleep I’m going to get tonight, I’m going to get, I’m going to wake up tomorrow. I have felt better as a result of that. I think that’s partially about grounded sheets. When I’ve slept on grounded sheets, I just felt like, you know what? It sounds like it could be good. I’m not going to rule it out. And because of that, I feel like I’m going to probably sleep better. And I think I did, but it has a lot to do with your mindset because there’s so many things that can screw up your sleep that reside in your brain and And you have to shut it off.
SPEAKER 15 :
Okay. And you know what, Dr. Kelly, that’s one where I can’t argue with that. I think there’s a lot to that. Going back to even, Dr. Kelly, you always talking about, you know, shut those things off before you go to bed. Shut those devices off. Some of you that might even be, you know, I think this is even key. And we’ve never talked about this, Dr. Kelly. I don’t care if it’s a device or I don’t care if it’s a work paper that you’re reading before you go to bed. That can be stressful. So no offense, put all that stuff down. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a blue light. It could be something that’s got your mind off on something that you know you’ve got to do first thing in the morning. That’s great, but turn that stuff off.
SPEAKER 04 :
I agree, and I think that’s why mindless things, you want to do something that’s relatively mindless and start getting into a good sleep hygiene, good sleep habit, which means in the same way that you’ve got a routine for everything else, you know, that you do before you go to bed, brushing your teeth or whatever else it is. You need to be shutting down those things that you’re shutting your brain down. You cannot expect to put your head on the pillow if it’s going a million miles an hour thinking about something you just read or something, you know, conversation you’ve had or anything else.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, and that’s where, for all of you, and I think there’s some advice here that I’ll give everybody, especially those of you that have maybe a family business or employees or things like that. Maybe you’re the person at the top, and maybe there is something that you really want to get discussed tomorrow morning. One of the things that I have learned through the years to not do, Steve, is tell those key people, in some cases my boys and managers, whatever, to not be texting at 8 o’clock at night saying, hey, we need to meet in the morning to do such and such, such and such, such and such, because now I know that what they’re going to do is think about that the entire night, especially if I don’t give them all the details about what we’re going to be meeting about. And I don’t want them to be thinking about things all night long. I can send that message first thing in the morning and get things dialed in as easily as I can the night before. So I don’t want to overdo their stress, if you would, quote unquote, by sending even something along those lines. And I think there’s a lot of you listening that are in my shoes that we find ourselves because, hey, I’m thinking about right now I’m going to go and send the message. Well, is that really the best time for that other person to do so?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, some part of that, John, and I’ve been there many, many times, is you want to get part of the stress off of you and onto them. You want them to share the stress. So you’ve got to get it off your mind, right? Hey, we’ve got to talk. There’s a problem. We need to do something to solve this problem. But you’re absolutely right. Wait until the next day and your people will have suffered one less night of poor sleep because they don’t know what’s really going on. They’re not in your head. But that’s 100% correct. I would always avoid sending those messages out.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yep. I also know, and Dr. Kelly, that sometimes sleeping on that yourself, not having that out to the other people, as Steve just mentioned, you know, I might even have a little different framework, a mental framework, I should say, the next morning. It’s why they always tell you, and I always say that I should write a book on how to buy a car because the worst time to ever buy a car is on a Friday night. I’ve always told people, never, ever, ever, ever, ever buy a car on a Friday night. You’re in the worst frame of mind you could possibly be in, and you will make the worst decisions ever buying a car on a Friday night because your brain is not where it should be.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, I think that that’s sage advice, and I would say that that’s true about so many things, deciding there are very few things in life where you really need to make a decision in the spur of the moment. As a trauma physician, I can tell you I know what those times are, and I know when they’re not. And most of the times we don’t need to make a decision in the spur of the moment, yet we feel compelled to do it. We live in such a fast-paced world where we always feel like we need to decide on something immediately. whether it’s buying a car or whatever the heck it is, whether it’s responding to an email or accepting a job offer or this or that, making a decision about your health care. Most of the time, 99.9% of the time, you have the luxury to say, you know what, let me sleep on that. Let me think about that. Let me read some more. Let me talk to a couple of other people. And I’m not suggesting that you want to get into what we call analysis paralysis, where you just can’t make a decision. But on the other side, the flip side, is that we constantly feel like we need to make decisions and act in the moment as opposed to taking that extra time and making sure that your head’s right, making sure that you’ve actually considered all the variables. And frankly, I think physicians are some of the worst at making patients feel like they need to make a decision and pull the trigger on starting a therapy or starting a new medication, whatever it is. You go to the doctor and he says, well, let’s start you on this new blood pressure medication. And people walk out all the time saying, oh, my God, I had no idea I was going to get sick. Well, you know what? Take some time. Think about it. Ask what the alternatives are.
SPEAKER 15 :
Absolutely.
SPEAKER 04 :
And we just don’t do that enough.
SPEAKER 15 :
Absolutely. Okay. Switching gears. Well, hang on. Let me double check. I’ve got a few messages that just came in. I’m not as gifted as a lot of people. It’s hard for me to talk, read, type, and do all of that at the same time, Dr. Kelly. I can switch gears pretty quickly, but sometimes I’ve got to stop for a moment and make sure that I can – uh read all of this somebody also said keep in mind smart watches can also track your sleep how well are you doing at night etc yes they can although i don’t use them that way dr kelly i kind of find that kind of to your point uh getting away from those devices i you know i put those things over on the nightstand turn them away from me i don’t want to see them at night i might look at one to kind of see what time it is if i wake up in the middle of the night but other than that i don’t want that thing on my wrist now that’s me i’m not saying that that’s you know Everybody has to do what I do, but I find that I know how I slept. I don’t need a device to tell me so. Am I wrong in my thoughts?
SPEAKER 04 :
No, I think that, you know, I’ll tell you, wearables are a mixed bag to me. They’re a mixed blessing. I have an innate distrust of them. I don’t like them. I don’t like things that track me. So I do not use one. I know a lot of friends and colleagues who rely on theirs and who look at it every day and track the number of steps they got and track how much sleep they got. And I’m not sure how it necessarily helps you. You know, how does it help you to know that you only got, you know, you can wake up feeling great in the morning and then you look and say, oh, I only got four and a half hours of sleep. Now I feel like crap, you know. Right, right, right. You felt good. So, you know.
SPEAKER 15 :
And I just, really quick, I responded to this person and basically said, you know, while I think it’s okay to do a test here and there, and if you want to track your sleep and see if you made a habit change and you did something to see, hey, am I going to sleep a little better because of that? You know what, if you want to try it periodically, be my guest. Would I wear it every night? No, Dr. Kelly, I would not.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, and as I said, it’s very individual. I’m not saying that it’s wrong to do it. I know many people who do it and get a tremendous amount out of it. The technology is getting better and better and more and more sophisticated. There are more things that they can track. Not only, you know, it used to be just steps and how much is left. Now they can track all kinds of things on these wearables. And much to my dismay, Robert Kennedy Jr. has come out and said that he hopes all Americans are, you know, wearing a wearable in the next several years. I will not be one of them, I can tell you. It isn’t the right thing for me, but that is not to say that it can’t help some other people to meet their goals.
SPEAKER 15 :
Okay, that makes sense to me. Steve, your thoughts on that? By the way, we never even talked about wearables, I don’t think at all. It might be something here in the near future we want to throw out there because they’re becoming such a big deal. I mean, the reality is they’re almost, in the cost of these things, Steve, is getting to the point to where they’re literally to a point where, I mean, if a homeless guy can have a cell phone, he can have a wearable. And I’m not exaggerating when I say that. That’s how inexpensive these have gotten.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, they have. And I’m kind of like, like Kelly said, I don’t wear a watch to bed, even though it can track my sleep. I’ve got to, you know, steps, watch things like that. Part of it is because. If I got a bad night’s sleep, I know it. I don’t need a watch to remind me of that. I don’t need it to show me trending of that. But here’s the other thing, and I found this really, really interesting. I spent some time with Kaiser in Colorado, and there was, as an example, a wearable, but it was really a tattoo, a tattoo on a person’s temple who had seizures. That tattoo was solar-powered at some level, and what it did was when your brain started to have a seizure or it was anticipating one coming, It would send a signal to your iPhone, and this was experimental, but it would send a signal to your iPhone as someone who’s about to have a seizure to let you know you need to lay down or sit down. Because one of the big things that happens with seizures is you have the seizure and you fall and you hurt yourself. So this was one of those things. And I’m thinking those kind of Internet of Things technologies to me that prevent pain and suffering or injury are probably way more important than knowing how much REM sleep I got last night.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, and again, folks listening, I am not against – I’m with both of you. I’m not against tracking some of these things and trying to figure out, you know, where you’re at and can you make some adjustments. And, you know, even Dr. Kelly, you know, maybe you want to take your cell phone and your watch on a couple of hikes or a couple of trips so you know exactly how many steps you’re going to be walking. But at that point forward, if you want to leave that stuff at home because you have less distractions and you feel like you can enjoy, you know, the outdoors more so, then leave that stuff at home. You know what that routine is. You know how many steps are there. Am I right or wrong?
SPEAKER 04 :
No, exactly. And I think you need to do whatever you enjoy the most. I know when I was a very competitive distance runner, I always, always, always had my watch on that was giving me my split times and telling me. And every once in a while, I would say, look, I just got to go for a run without that dang watch on. Right. I just got to go for a run to enjoy the run. There you go. Stop focusing on, oh, my God, oh, my God, I was… You know, four seconds, you know, that half mile was four seconds slower or whatever. I mean, at some point it becomes such a focus. So I think it’s very individual. If you’re that person who can make those limits, you can, you know, get put those limitations in and get away from it. Great. I, as I said, I have an innate distrust of trackers because I don’t know where that information exactly can go and who has access to it. So I choose not to wear one. And you’re also talking to the person who’s never I’ve never had a Facebook account in my life. I’m not on Instagram. I don’t I choose not to. Other than Twitter, that’s it. You know, I really try to keep my social media footprint very, very small because I don’t like being tracked.
SPEAKER 15 :
No, and by the way, all of you listening, I don’t think there’s anything wrong on that at all. I think whatever works for you is what works for you. That’s just the way it is at the end of the day. And I think one thing, Dr. Kelly and Steve, both that I think folks can get into the trap of is. seeing somebody else do something, or they see a commercial for something, or they read an article, or somebody sent them something, and all of a sudden it’s the new fad and the new thing they need to do. Not saying that fads don’t work and things along those lines aren’t helpful, but I think at the end of the day, you’ve got to do what works best for you and not worry about what somebody else is doing, because what might work for them might be a total disaster for you.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know what, John? Part of the problem is that you can look at something that maybe it’s a diet, maybe it’s steps, a workout routine, something you’re seeing online. Maybe it’s the guy that does V-Shred. If you don’t go all in on it, though, so often people will go partially in on it and say, oh, it didn’t work for me. Maybe it was actually going to help you, but if you’re going to do something based on someone else’s science or research or whatever… If you’re going to do it, just do it. Go all the way in, right? And if you’re going to do 7,000, 8,000 steps a day and you’re going to do it for a week, don’t take your watch off one day and say, well, I probably did it, but I didn’t really want to know.
SPEAKER 15 :
Great point.
SPEAKER 03 :
You just go in on it all the way or don’t. Sort of tracking what works for you and what doesn’t.
SPEAKER 15 :
It’s like tracking your health, your weight, or anything else, all of you listening. I mean, the reality, Dr. Kelly, is if you get on the scale twice a year, well – No offense, that’s not really tracking your weight. You need to be on that scale, if not daily, and some would say that’s not a good idea. Some say it’s a bad idea. I’m one where I will do it almost daily, but I might skip a day or two because I pretty much know because of whatever you might have had the day before that didn’t work out so well that, you know what, no sense getting on it or you know where I’m going to be. But there’s no way to track your weight if you’re not on the scale is my point.
SPEAKER 04 :
I agree. And I think that, you know, one of the things that if you don’t ever track it and pay attention to those sorts of things, it’s easy to fool yourself.
SPEAKER 15 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 04 :
Into thinking that, you know, it’s easy to fool yourself into thinking, oh, I’m sure I do, you know, 8000 steps a day because and then you track yourself and say, oh, my gosh, that was only 4000 steps. Right. I don’t. So I think sometimes, you know, there is a flip side to saying to being able to bring it to your consciousness that. And certainly weighing yourself is that if you don’t ever weigh yourself, you don’t do it regularly. It’s easy to fool yourself into thinking that you haven’t gained weight or that you’re where you should be. So I think it’s it’s a mix. As I said, it’s very individual and people need to do it and keep control of it so it doesn’t start to control them.
SPEAKER 15 :
Amen. Well, how fast time flies when we’re together, guys. I mean that sincerely. Everything just rolls by. Even Charlie and I talk about every Thursday just how quickly the hour passes because it does. Steve, again, thank you so much for five-plus years ago putting all this together. We owe all of this to you. Really, we do.
SPEAKER 03 :
I had such a great time with all this, and I’m going to ask Kelly and her final thoughts to say something if she’s willing to do it, and that is, I see Kelly on a commercial at night, you know, like between Gus Feldman and Hannity almost every night. There she is on my TV. I’m like, oh, my God, there’s Kelly Victory. Are you someone, because I’ve known you for a long, long time, Kelly, and I’m assuming you’ve never had a weight problem. Do you actually weigh yourself every day? Because I think someone like you who doesn’t have a weight issue, most of the people I know like that, they actually do weigh themselves every day. Anyway, but I’ll leave you with that. I love being on the show, guys. Yeah. and Kelly can take it away.
SPEAKER 15 :
All right, man. Appreciate you, Steve, very much. Kelly, I’ll let you answer that, and then I’ll let you go.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I do, and I do for exactly the reason I said, to make sure, because it’s a heck of a lot easier to lose 2 pounds than to lose 20.
SPEAKER 15 :
You got that right.
SPEAKER 04 :
And so as soon as you see that number get to the plus 2, then you’re like, okay, I can take care of that in a day or two. There you go. If you get to plus 20, it’s a whole different thing. So I do. I have to admit it.
SPEAKER 15 :
Great advice, Dr. Kelly. Thank you, as always. Have a great rest of your day.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER 15 :
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SPEAKER 07 :
It’s time to leave your safe space. This is Rush to Reason on KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 15 :
All right, we are back, closing things out. Somebody also said that they feel it’s a good idea to just keep the cell phone, wearables, all that stuff out of the room you’re sleeping in. We’ve had lots of experts on our Wednesday health and wellness show that would agree with that, and I think for some that’s okay. I, for one, because of businesses, my father, other things that are going on family-wise, I wish I could do that, but I have to stay connected. There’s no way I could put the phone in another room. and have that work for me. But each of you is different. Whatever you can do, do what you think is best for you, and no judgment on my part. This is Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 17 :
The Average Guy’s Ordinary Average Guy
