Join Andy Pate and his insightful guests Luke Cash and Ashley Cart as they explore the unforeseen challenges that come with mourning a loved one in the public eye. Through the lens of Erica Kirk’s experience, they ponder the unrealistic expectations placed on individuals in positions of influence, and the importance of allowing each person to grieve in their own way. As the conversation unfolds, they reflect on the dual roles Erica now faces – a grieving widow and the leader of a significant political movement. The episode aims to foster compassion and provide a space for understanding the
SPEAKER 12 :
This is Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 09 :
You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes.
SPEAKER 10 :
With your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 09 :
My advice to you is to do what your parents did. Get a job, sir. You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same, and there’s a big difference.
SPEAKER 01 :
Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 09 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 12 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush. Presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 02 :
Filling in is Andy Pate, party of choice.
SPEAKER 04 :
And I’m your host, Andy Pate, filling in for John Rush today as he is taking a little time off. A little time off going and having some fun over the holidays. Good for him. I am joined once again by Luke Cash. Man. And Ashley Cart. Her. That’s right. It works so well. It just flows. You know, it’s kind of amazing. We have two guys in here, one girl, and the guys are still outnumbered. Why is that? I don’t know.
SPEAKER 08 :
I feel oppressed. I don’t know. I do. Well, famously, Ashley is a very oppressive person.
SPEAKER 04 :
I am. Do you oppress your husband? Oh, yeah, every day. Oh, that’s really cool.
SPEAKER 08 :
I was wondering what the collection of bull whips were lined up in your cubicle, and it all makes sense now.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. Yep. Well, you know, I am very oppressed at home, as you know. We all know. Well, yes.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, I’ve gotten tips from your wife.
SPEAKER 04 :
You’ve met my wife, yes. My little 5’1 tower of power. It’s incredible. She’s 5’1, and I feel shorter when I’m around her. I’m in fear all the time. Is it the cowering?
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s the kneeling and supplication, I think.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I think so. It’s hard to walk on knees. That’s why I got that extra set of shoes. So I want to talk a little bit, though, about a wife who’s going through a little bit of a different situation, obviously, and that’s Erica Kirk.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, boy.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes. Well, as you know. Erica Kirk, of course, had a terrible tragedy happen a couple months ago in August, I believe. It was still August, wasn’t it, when Charlie was shot?
SPEAKER 06 :
I want to say so.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, horrifying. Absolutely horrifying. And Erica Kirk lost her husband. September 10th. Oh, 10th. Sorry. Early September. There you go. And Charlie Kirk was horrifyingly murdered. Okay. And by the way, I don’t know if you’ve seen the guy on the stand. He looks like a total sociopath, smiling. It’s like he doesn’t care what happened. This guy literally has no conscience.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. Now he’s innocent until proven guilty. So I’m saying the alleged killer. But boy, he’s got all the I mean, all the evidence points at him. Every single shred of evidence is pointing at him. I mean, they’ve got his fingerprints. They’ve got DNA. They’ve got everything they’ve got in two or three places online. He admitted to it. OK. OK. Right. The guy looks sick. Well, anyway, Eric Kirk has come under a lot of fire, believe it or not, for not grieving right.
SPEAKER 06 :
I’ve seen that all over the Internet.
SPEAKER 04 :
Have you? And what kinds of things have you seen? What have people been saying?
SPEAKER 06 :
The stuff you see on the Internet is insane. They’re like, she seems too happy. Like, she’s moving on too quickly. She’s not weeping. She’s not crying her eyes out. She’s not bawling like she was at his memorial. And it’s like, well, yeah, because it’s done. It’s over. She’s cried it out.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. Well, and you see, here’s the thing, Luke, I want you to answer for both of us here.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh boy.
SPEAKER 04 :
What is the right way to grieve?
SPEAKER 08 :
I think the depends on the individual. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh my goodness. Say that again.
SPEAKER 08 :
Depends on the individual.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right. Exactly. People all grieve in their own ways. Okay. When John lost his father, he was back at work very quickly. This is how John is. I’m just going to say this really quick here. For those who don’t know, my wife and I are like ludicrously in love. We pick on each other all the time when we’re on air. But we are one of these disgusting couples you don’t want to be around.
SPEAKER 08 :
It truly sickens me.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I mean, well, you don’t want to be around me in general. I mean, obviously, of course. But when you see us in Sam’s Club or at a restaurant, you know, not a ton of PDA, but I mean, you know, always holding hands, you know, hugs, that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER 06 :
I want to be just like you when I’m older.
SPEAKER 04 :
We’re totally cute. We’re ridiculously cute. Well, you’re going to have to be an awful lot older, just so you know. And, you know, we are one of those. So if I were to lose Corey… Obviously, it would be unbelievably devastating. And I’m just going to be honest. I wouldn’t want to live after that. I’d be like, OK, Lord, me next. Now, I just to me, she’s my everything. And that’s just the way it is. Obviously, God is my everything. You know that. But after God, Corey is my everything. And I’ll be honest, folks, I don’t know exactly how I would function in the aftermath, but one thing I don’t think I could do is sit at home in silence alone for long periods of time. That would be hard, just looking around at everything that reminds me of her. Now, of course, it’s not like I would have to at times, but I wouldn’t even know how I would function at those times. And what I guess I’m getting to is this. It’s different for everybody. Some people, they need a long time, and they do need that time alone in their home, alone, away from all other people. They cannot interact. They cannot engage. And you know what? I respect that. But then you’ve got other people who need people around right then. And not even people just to give them condolences and be there for them, a shoulder to cry on. Maybe you want that. Or maybe you just need people to talk about other stuff.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Maybe you need people to talk about the Broncos this week or anything else. You know what I’m saying? Just something else. But it’s different for everybody, isn’t it?
SPEAKER 06 :
It is. And what’s crazy to me is the people criticizing Erica Kirk for not grieving properly, from what I’ve seen this week alone on the internet, are the same people that are like, oh, let’s do a deep dive into how Neytiri and Jake both grieve differently in the new Avatar movie. And I’m like, you can understand them grieving differently, but you can’t understand a real human being.
SPEAKER 04 :
They’re CGI characters. Okay. You relate to them, but you don’t relate to Erica. Exactly. It blows my mind. Right. Erica’s out there right now. She’s pushing Charlie’s book. Well, folks, he was her husband. This was his final book of his life, which he had completed. And she is out there selling his book. This means a lot to her. Why wouldn’t it? I mean, obviously, also, it’s good for TPUSA, right? It’s going to raise funds for them and it’s going to help the machine. Look, she’s in charge of it. She’s the CEO. She is the one who is responsible for all these people needing jobs. And that’s another thing people have to keep in mind. She can’t just drop the ball. Now, I noticed that on the podcast, she has let other people carry the podcast and they’re very good. These are brilliant. They’re both a couple of young guys who are brilliant people and they’re doing a good job. But how should she grieve? Luke, I mean, don’t you think that people are just being unfair?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I’m going to have a bit more of an unpopular opinion because I’m very much in the camp of I don’t. I’m not super big on what she’s doing recently. Okay, go ahead. In the sense that I think there, for me, as a person who was never big into Charlie Kirk, I’m not in that sphere. It’s not a point of politics that I was super engaged with. So for me, this is a more outsider perspective, kind of looking in because so much has been stirred up about it, just to kind of lay the foundation of where I’m coming from. Fair enough. Her husband’s assassinated, and from an outside perspective, what I see is a lot of fanfare. I see a memorial with fireworks, and I see Erica Kirk saying, her words saying, that I want to be left alone, and I need time to grieve, and then she’s putting on eyeliner and lipstick for her 150th interview about the assassination she doesn’t want to talk about anymore.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, well, are you saying she shouldn’t wear makeup?
SPEAKER 08 :
No, I’m saying she’s putting in a lot of effort for these interviews that she has said she doesn’t want to be a part of.
SPEAKER 04 :
Which, by the way, and just so you know, she spent a couple weeks doing nothing. Right. She disappeared off the map. And during that time, if I may interrupt for one moment, and I’m going to get back to you. People were saying at that point, well, wait a minute, she’s in charge of TPUSA and all we’re seeing is these other two guys. Where is Erica? So at first it was, where is Erica? Where is Erica? Where is Erica? Then she explodes back on the scene. And you’re right. She’s wearing her makeup. By the way, she’s a former model. Right, right.
SPEAKER 08 :
The makeup isn’t a critique of her wearing makeup. It’s the fact that she is intentionally putting an effort to present herself in an interview space.
SPEAKER 04 :
Fair enough. When you put yourself out there, the arrows can come.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. And then, you know, it’s merch. And I know you had mentioned the book, but it’s, you know, it’s the hats and the T-shirts and the signs. And it’s a lot of, like I said, from an outsider who’s never been involved in this space, seeing it for the first time, because this is my introduction into all of what’s happened, right? This is the only thing I’ve ever seen. It feels weird to me, having never experienced anything in that realm before, seeing it for the first time, like, oh, this is an odd introduction to what’s happening here.
SPEAKER 04 :
I think I can answer that. I really do. And Ashley, you chime in if you want. She doesn’t have a normal life. TPUSA was a phenomenon. It was because of Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk was really, I believe, the most important conservative voice since Rush Limbaugh because he was making inroads on a demographic that Democrats had owned, literally owned for several decades. And I mean serious inroads. Trump got larger percentages of young voters in every demographic. than any presidential candidate had in a long time on the right. It was mainly because of Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk would go into the lion’s den, into the hardest places, and win debates, and win them handily, and also do it respectfully in ways that I had not seen before. By the way, did I think his every answer was perfect? No, but he was so good, and he was so caring with how he handled a lot of people, and sometimes he’d have to get tough on them. You have to. I mean, otherwise, if you’re just a pushover, they’re going to kill you when you go to these college campuses. So it’s a mix, you know, love, toughness, love, toughness. Here’s the thing. Erica is not like the average person who just lost their spouse in a vacuum and hardly anybody knows but a few close friends. She lost her spouse who was leading the main political movement that was directing the future of our country.
SPEAKER 06 :
I think the political movement is the big point there for me. Because, I mean, you know, this wasn’t just a freak accident where, you know, Charlie’s dead and, oh, well, don’t ask me about the freak accident anymore.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, it was an assassination.
SPEAKER 06 :
This was an intentional assassination to silence someone in the political sphere who was speaking the word of God.
SPEAKER 04 :
And who was incredibly effective. And who was incredibly effective. Speaking the word of God and also speaking politically. I mean, he was incredibly effective. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 06 :
So it’s like it’s not just that thing of, you know, oh, it’s a freak accident. Don’t talk to me about it. I won’t talk about it. It’s like you kind of have to like she’s almost backed into a corner where she has to talk about this. Otherwise, the message of TPUSA risks being lost. Otherwise, you know, Charlie’s death risks being, you know, put pushed aside in that vacuum and it stops being a you know, this was a political assassination to silence someone. And it becomes a yeah, it was a tragedy where a guy got shot on a college campus.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right. Well, and also I want to reiterate in the first couple of weeks, it was, you know, here she was put in charge of Charlie’s empire, as it were. And yet you weren’t seeing her. You didn’t see her for two, two and a half. I don’t know how long. I mean, you saw her at one or two times. Things where she spoke briefly, but you really didn’t see her. It was the team doing all the podcasts, the team doing all the interviews, the team going on Fox everywhere. It was the team doing everything. And so at first what I was hearing was, where’s Erica? Whereas Erica, I mean, no offense, we know you lost your husband to an assassination, but the fact is you’re in charge now and other people are doing all the talking. Is Erica just a figurehead? And that was the big thing I was hearing. Is she just a figurehead? Because I’ll be honest, I didn’t think she should get the job. Not because I didn’t think she was qualified, but because I felt, wow. I mean, to take that on in the aftermath of the assassination would be really tough. I at least wouldn’t want her to. I felt that she shouldn’t have even been out there for a full month. But the fact is, as I was seeing online, a lot of people didn’t feel that way. She is dealing with millions of people questioning every single day too much, too little, too much, too little, too much, too little. Now, as for the makeup, I think that’s simply Erica Kirk. I mean, she was a model. It’s what she does. Erica Kirk wouldn’t know how to go out without doing her hair just so. I mean, seriously, it’s how she functions.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I mean, let’s be honest, too. She goes out with makeup. You’re doing it wrong. She goes out without makeup. You’re doing it wrong.
SPEAKER 04 :
You hide away for two weeks.
SPEAKER 06 :
You’re doing it wrong. You are talking at functions. You’re doing it wrong. She is under such a microscope that nothing she does is going to appease everyone.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right.
SPEAKER 06 :
And every criticism is going to blow up on the Internet because of the situation around it.
SPEAKER 08 :
A lot of truth to that. And again, just to sort of reiterate the point, is that I don’t – the most I’ve ever heard about Charlie Kirk was post-assassination. Like I said, this isn’t a realm I’m super familiar with. The only reason my opinion comes counter to what might be considered normal is because – My observation of events is I’m seeing a lot of fanfare and I’m hearing about a lot of this only after he’s died. So it’s like it kind of that’s the perspective of events I have, which to me was registering as a bit odd. But again, I’m not familiar with the space.
SPEAKER 06 :
You’re looking from the outside, which means you’re going to have a different perspective.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, actually. Yeah. Actually, I think your perspective is 100 percent fair. Because you’re looking from the outside at something you’ve never seen and someone you’ve never seen.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. I don’t know that guy.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. I mean, he almost had a messianic quality to the way he was remembered by people. Now, he would hate that, of course, obviously. Oh, yeah. But what I mean is Charlie was just revered so much is what I’m saying. He was revered. It’s kind of like, you know, to the left, Rob Reiner. Okay. He’s just revered. While we on the right would say, oh, my gosh, such a hateful guy. Right. And by the way, after the break, I’m probably going to talk some. I got to talk some about Trump’s post about Rob Reiner. OK. And get into that. But really quick, getting back to your response. Yeah. I don’t blame you for that at all. OK, Luke. And it’s not just because you’re a friend. It is a spectacle. It is a spectacle. Her husband, it wasn’t just that her husband was that popular and that important politically and religiously. It was that she is now in charge of the fastest growing, most important political movement in the country. And I mean, she is being looked at it everywhere and everywhere she goes. There are such expectations on her. Most people, when you lose somebody, I can tell you one thing for sure. When you lose somebody, generally, there are not a lot of expectations on you. Okay. People will judge somewhat because everybody, as you were saying earlier, everybody grieves differently at a different speed. And so you’re going to have people at the office, at church, in the neighborhood who are going to say, you’re grieving too quickly or too slow. You’re taking too long. Get on with life. Right, Ashley? Yeah. Or… You know, wow. Why are you right back at work? This is this is how I grieve, man.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. No one is ever going to grieve appropriately for according to everyone in the world, especially to the Internet.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right. It’s just too hard. And especially when you’re doing it under. I’ve never I’ve never seen somebody lose someone under quite that kind of microscope. I know it’s happened, obviously, JFK, but we’re going back a ways. Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
Pre-internet, you don’t have people on social media talking about it 24-7. That’s the big case is it’s the internet.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right. So all I would say is this, folks, not just for Erica Kirk, because let’s face it, none of us are going to meet Erica Kirk. So let’s look at other people, just the people in your life. You know, it is very hard. You know, it’s like it’s very hard for my wife right now around the holidays without her dad. I’ll just say that, who she lost a couple years ago. Everybody grieves differently. Please, please, please, whatever their pace is, just call it good. Whatever their method is, call it good. And, you know, maybe there are some unhealthy things there. Maybe there are some things they’re not facing. But you know what? That’s their thing. Be available. But judgment, that’s not the time.
SPEAKER 06 :
If they’re not hurting themselves or others, let them grieve.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right. And by the way, you’re not judging. Okay. No, you’re just saying as an outsider looking in.
SPEAKER 08 :
Just offering what I’ve seen.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, you’re right. This looks like, you know, this done up lady in a spectacle situation. It does look weird. You’re right. Because it is. And there you go. But I can say this. All of us here at KLC, we mourn with her. What a terrible loss for anybody to lose somebody, the love of their life, and then to be thrust into that kind of situation. Erica, we wish the best for you and we pray the best for you. Okay, up next is, let’s take a break. We’ll come back, talk a little bit about Trump and Reiner because my view of his post is not popular. And I understand that. Folks, I want you to hear me out because my concern is not about Trump. It’s about us.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 10 :
Country. Reason. Now back to John Rush.
SPEAKER 04 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason. Denver’s Afternoon Rush. KLZ 560. Andy Pate filling in for John Rush along with Ashley Cart. Her. And Luke Cash. Man. Say it again. Luke Cash. Man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Man. Okay. Still outnumbered. Yeah. This is going to take a couple segments. It may take longer. Folks, I know this is a bit uncomfortable because a lot of people, we want to look at the… Donald Trump post about Rob Reiner and say, okay, it’s over a week. Let’s let it go. I am. Okay. What my concern is how we’re treating it, how MAGA, which I am. Okay. Neither of you are MAGA like I am. Okay. You lean MAGA, Ashley. I do. Okay. And, and you, sir, are a swing voter and that’s who we’re going to be talking about.
SPEAKER 08 :
Talk to me.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. I think Trump’s post on Rob Reiner was a mistake. OK, I’m just going to be honest about that. And folks, when you hear this, you’re probably going to hear you’re probably thinking, oh, no, the next couple of segments, Andy’s just going to be going after Trump, sticking it to him. And no, that’s not the point. My concern isn’t so much. I am going to be showing why. OK, but my concern isn’t that my concern is the people who are defending it. because they are a fair little segment of MAGA. And there’s a real big problem here, folks. When we go forward into 2026, and we have to win the looks of the world, and we have to win the swing voters.
SPEAKER 08 :
Gotta win me.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. There are two kinds of MAGA. Now, the bigger group is what you would look at and call me and John Rush, Trump supporters. And we’re strong. I’m 100% Trump supporter. I love MAGA. I’m into it. I love the beliefs of MAGA. Does that mean I agree with every single thing Trump does? No. But I love MAGA. Overall, I think great presidency. By the way, we had a 4.7% increase in the GDP. We’re not getting out of the park. It’s only going to get better in 2026. Donald Trump is bringing us back, baby. It’s going to be glorious. The economy, glorious. Okay, by the way, for the last two quarters, we’ve had two quarters in a row where income went up faster than inflation. Haven’t seen that since Trump’s last time around. So, yeah, I’m happy for the American people. But there are two kinds, the Trump supporters. Now, these are people who support Trump. We love Trump, but we are willing to criticize on something here and there. Okay, I love them, but on this thing here, like I’ll say on Venezuela. Okay, you can hit these drug boats, but I don’t want you going on land. No incursion into Venezuela. I wouldn’t even talk about it. I disagree. Okay. Does that mean I’m not a Trump supporter, Ashley?
SPEAKER 06 :
No.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. The other group is what I call the cult members, the Trump cult members. And here’s what I mean. One of the defining characteristics of a cult is that you cannot question the great leader. By the way, that doesn’t mean Trump wants to be a cult leader. Okay, I know he comes off that way because he has such a big personality and you have some people who follow him that way. But really, that’s not his thing. Okay, he came up in boardrooms where he liked having warring ideas. He liked having people who disagreed with him and so forth. He didn’t get where he was by having nothing but yes men. He would have gone nuts. He likes having different points of view. He likes having a J.D. Vance and a Marco Rubio who disagree on plenty right next to him. He enjoys it. But you’ve got people in his, shall I say, following who are cult members. And what I mean is this, folks, listen to me closely. If you or someone you know can’t handle Trump, OK, making a mistake, can’t handle the thought of it and must instantly look for every way to defend that no matter what. In a way, to a degree, you’re a cult member. Now, Luke, here’s what I want to ask you, sir, because you’re a swing voter. And my big concern is not the base. His post didn’t offend me because I know Trump. I know how he talks. I know, you know, but I felt it was bad strategy. Very bad strategy, by the way. My concern is how it affects swing voters. All right. And really quick here. When I say this post is a big mistake, I’ll come to you in a moment, sir. Swing voter, be ready. I’m ready. Okay. All pundits, listen closely, folks. I’m not just saying this on my own. All pundits outside of the hardcore Trump base blasted it. Many pundits and Republicans inside the Trump base blasted it. I’m talking Dana Lash. I’m talking chicks on the right. I’m not talking just conservatives. I’m talking down with Trump. Conservatives still blasted it. The four hosts at night on Fox News. Laura Ingram, Jesse, Sean, Greg, not one of them defended it. They are his hardcore, dyed-in-the-wool, fully committed base. They didn’t defend it. Think about this on Monday and Tuesday. Okay, when I called it out online in multiple pages, my readers, who are over 90% MAGA, they agreed with me calling it out. They agreed that it was a mistake by about a six-to-one margin. That’s MAGA.
SPEAKER 08 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, with all this evidence, I think it’s safe to say swing voters probably oppose this post by at least 20 to 1. Maybe 50 to 1. I don’t know. So first of all, Luke, you’ve read the post. What do you think?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I think it’s in terrible taste, personally. Like I said, I’m also not super familiar with Rob Reiner. I did a little bit of research kind of during the break just to catch myself up.
SPEAKER 04 :
Horrible. He said horrible things.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes, he’s… Very controversial figure. Very, very controversial. And I think if you’re Joe Schmo on the street and you want to vent your anger out into oblivion on the internet, that’s totally fine. You know, freedom of speech. I think it’s very different when the president of the United States of America does something like this.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. Now, if I may.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
Here’s what I want to get to is not so much Trump. We’ll get into why it was wrong, because I’m going to look at people have been offering all kinds of defenses for it. I’m going to go through them one by one and we’re going to click them off quick. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. But here’s what I want to ask you. Trump supporters who love Trump, but they’re willing to, you know, disagree at times, haggle on various issues, you know, go back and forth. Trump supporters versus cult members. You are a swing voter. Yeah. Which is more persuasive to you? If a cult member, forget Trump, a cult member of any cult, somebody who cannot question the great leader no matter what.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I think I’m more persuaded by rational individuals. Personally, if you are a rational person with a good head on your shoulders and you are capable of dissecting and exchanging information healthily, you’re the kind of person who’s going to be able to convince me. I do not wish to associate myself with mindless sycophants.
SPEAKER 04 :
I think it’s… Knee-jerk apologists.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. It is a disease of… I’m going to go bold and say it. I think it’s a disease of intellect. I think the blind following of any mortal figure, right? If you’re religious, that’s a different matter. But the blind following of any man to that degree is scary on an intellectual level.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, Ashley, what do you think?
SPEAKER 06 :
I mean, I’m on the same boat. If you have a rational argument, that’ll persuade me. My thing is, and we’ve seen this all over the place, it’s following this mortal figure where they can do no wrong. They have to not do wrong. And I think it’s because we live in this era where if you support someone, if you follow someone who does one wrong thing… You are the devil. You are horrible. You have made the wrong decision for the rest of your life. So it’s like you almost have this knee-jerk reaction of, I have to defend them because if they’re wrong, I’m wrong, and I can’t be wrong because then all my friends are going to say that I’m a horrible person.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, here’s the bottom line, folks, and then we’re going to take a quick break, come back, and actually break down his post. What you’re saying is this, and folks, you’ve got to listen to this because 2026 is right around the corner. If you’re a big Trump supporter like me, this is the market speaking to you right now. They are saying if you come off like a cult member, even if you say, I’m not a cult member, what are you talking about? If you come off like a knee-jerk apologist for the great leader, no matter what, you are going to be far, far, far, far less persuasive. than somebody who is willing to say, yeah, I think that was a bad call. Bad call. I still love him. I disagree with that one. That’s okay. You know?
SPEAKER 06 :
If you can acknowledge the faults in someone that you follow, you earn so much more respect.
SPEAKER 04 :
You become a much better salesman for that person. Exactly. If you can acknowledge the faults. And that’s the way it goes. Does that make sense? Yeah. So what I’m talking about today is not… That I want to bash Trump, bash Trump. I’m not going to, folks. You know I adore Trump. I think he’s the greatest president of my lifetime. I do. I think he has done more in this year than any president in my lifetime. It’s incredible. Okay? And just cutting a lot of government jobs alone, I think, was spectacular. But, folks, if you come off as a knee-jerk apologist, I’m telling you what, you’re not going to win any swing voters, period. You aren’t going to help Donald Trump in 26. And so after the break, we’re going to take a look really quick. We’re going to go through them as some of the defenses that have been put up for his post. I’m going to read it off really quick. And we’re going to look at this and understand how you’re coming off when you offer these defenses. Sound good? Sounds great. Okay, let’s take a quick break here. Up next is Cub Creek Heating and Air. You never have to defend them. They’re always right. Winter is here. Your heater is working for now. But make sure it’s running its best and safe for the winter with a checkup from Cub Creek at 303-656-5467.
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SPEAKER 10 :
The best export we have is Common Sense. You’re listening to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 04 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560, Andy Pate filling in for John Rush, along with Luke Cashman and Ashley Carter. That’s right, Ashley Carter. I just like you saying Ashley Carter.
SPEAKER 06 :
It makes sense. I like it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Exactly.
SPEAKER 08 :
I’m shocked we realized that one. I think like a couple minutes before our first show together, you’re like, it’s Luke Cashman. Oh, you don’t have a thing. And then you had mentioned, no, Carter. And we’re all sitting like a brain blast. Like, it’s genius.
SPEAKER 04 :
I know, I know.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s perfect.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, you know, my wife listens to it and she hears, you know, Tanner Cole, man, and Luke Cash, man. She’s just like, I wish my husband was as man as those two. Yeah. But then she comes in here and meets Charlie. She says, okay, as those three, I wish he was that manly. Yeah. But I do my best. I try. Okay, folks, let’s tear into this. It’s going to be quick. First of all, swing voters. I’m going to be honest, and I think you’ll agree with this, Luke. It’s me. Swing voters like Trump on the issues generally because he’s a populist, folks. He holds generally 60-40 positions on most things. He does. Not on all things. You can’t, okay, because people disagree. But I look at the polling. When you look at the polling on the issues, most of his issues are 60-40. OK, they don’t dislike him because of the issues. They dislike his personal personality. And here’s what they see him as. And you tell me, Luke, if I’m right on each one. They see him as petty.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Vindictive. Yep. Classless.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Self-absorbed. Very much so. Chaotic. Uh-huh. Oh, wait a minute. That’s a swing voter. And by the way, Ashley’s over here nodding, too, because she’s a leaner. I am, yeah. You need to be more than leaner. You need to be full MAGA like me. You’ve got to go crazy.
SPEAKER 08 :
I was going to say, you talk to some of the MAGA people, and they’ll even agree on those points. There’ll probably be a bit more positive asterisks attached to it, but those are hard to debate.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right. And by the way, I don’t see him that way, folks. I actually don’t agree with all those things. Okay. But I believe that is how he is seen because I always look at your messaging. And let’s read the post. And I want to see if Trump confirmed or dispelled the worst feelings that swing voters have about him. Remember, think of swing voters, not MAGA like me. OK, here we go. This is post. This is the post. This is Trump talking about Rob Reiner, who had just been literally slaughtered with a knife. Okay. A very sad thing happened last night in Hollywood. Rob Reiner, a tortured and struggling but once very talented movie director and comedy star, has passed away. Okay, stop. When you say but once very talented movie director and comedy star, what are you saying? That he’s washed up. That he’s washed up. Not anymore. Right. In other words, yeah, he might have been good back then when, you know, but he has now. Is he lying? No, I’ll be honest. Rob Reiner hasn’t done anything of value in years. OK, really? And I’m a I’m a movie critic. I mean, OK, it’s what I do. OK, I am mean by by nature. But Rob Reiner, to me, is one of the greatest directors in the history of Hollywood. I mean, he’s top 10 ever. That’s how good I think he is. OK, but no, he hasn’t had any hot stuff out for a long time. OK, that would you say that that’s petty what he just said?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. In the context of the post as a memorial to say he was once good is it’s a kick while they’re already literally as down as they can possibly be.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right, and why at this point are you mentioning that he’s tortured and struggling?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, it’s just timing, folks. Timing is everything. Continuing on, he’s passed away. Together with his wife, Michelle, reportedly due to the anger he caused others through his massive, unyielding, and incurable affliction with a mind-crippling disease known as Trump Derangement Syndrome, sometimes referred to as TDS. Ashley, is that why Reiner was killed? No. Luke, was that why Reiner was killed?
SPEAKER 08 :
No, and it definitely hits on that self-absorbed… You know, you’re turning a person’s death into something about you entirely.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right, and we’re going to get to that even more here in a moment. But look, he wasn’t killed because of Trump. Did he have TDS? Yes. He was a full carrier of TDS. And I mean, he was cray-cray with it, folks, okay? I mean, seriously. He was out there.
SPEAKER 08 :
Very vocal.
SPEAKER 04 :
Very vocal and just, I mean, really… consumed with it all right and it was ridiculous but folks wow look what you’re doing you are basically talking all about yourself and talking about his trump derangement syndrome going on he was known to have driven people crazy by his raging obsession of president donald j trump now you’re talking about yourself in the third person think about this um with this obvious paranoia reaching new heights okay Is this positive? Is this something that in any way dispels the petty, vindictive, classless, self-absorbed, and chaotic?
SPEAKER 06 :
No, absolutely not.
SPEAKER 04 :
Is it totally buttressing it and building it up?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, continuing on. Here’s the end. As the Trump administration surpassed all goals and expectations of greatness, and with the golden age of America upon us, perhaps like never before, Trump continued, Who’s he talking about more, himself or the deceased? Now, seriously, folks, I love Trump. I just know this is how he is. He’s a promoter. Trump is a promoter. It’s what he does. I’ve known people like this who are promoters. They don’t mean anything negative about. Now, he means negative things about Reiner. But I mean, in general, they talk about themselves all the time. Why? They’re just a promoter. It’s what they do. OK, sorry, man. That’s the way it is. Then he ends, may Rob and Michelle rest in peace. Okay, putting that at the end of what he just said, does it even feel authentic at all?
SPEAKER 06 :
No.
SPEAKER 04 :
Does it, Luke?
SPEAKER 08 :
No. Okay. I mean, I don’t think it was ever intended to be authentic.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right. Folks, this is why virtually everyone outside of the hardcore base of MAGA feels that this was a terrible thing that he did. Terrible thing that he wrote. Okay. I think it was a lost opportunity. Incredible lost opportunity. We’ll get to that in a moment. Here we go. Now, in some articles, I’ve read some articles and some posts defending it, and they lay it out like lawyers. It’s incredible. Here are some of their points. Number one, everything in Trump’s post was true. Well, yeah, it was true. But was it the right time? I believe everything he wrote was true. I do agree with it. Okay. Is this the right time to say those things?
SPEAKER 08 :
No, absolutely. I mean, absolutely not. Okay. That’s the swing voter speaking. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 06 :
I would argue that not everything in the post was true because of that one line where he said he was killed because of Trump.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, you’re right. You’re right. The motive. Yeah. Thank you. I forgot about that. Very good catch. Yeah. I was thinking more of the second paragraph. Good enough. Okay. Next, that’s why we love Trump. He speaks his mind. That’s why you love Trump. Well, let me say this. I love this about Trump. I do. He’s the freshest political speaker who speaks his mind. And you guys got to understand, I’m a guy who does political messaging and I’ve been following it for a couple decades. Most politicians bore me to tears because they don’t say what’s on their mind. Everything is crafted correctly. Everything is sanitized. Everything is boring. They sound like politicians. Trump doesn’t. I like that. I don’t fall asleep when he speaks unless he does one of the really long ones. OK, so I like that. But let me tell you something, folks. I love that he’s our hammer, but not every situation is a nail.
SPEAKER 06 :
Is that a good way to put it?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. OK, next. Reiner said terrible things about Trump. So he deserved Trump’s post. Okay, let’s say that’s true. Wouldn’t it also be true that the worse Reiner was, the greater the opportunity for Trump to be a good guy to Reiner’s bad guy? Okay, let’s say that Trump had been gracious and classy. Let’s say he had said, look, y’all know that we had differences, but we both respected one thing, greatness. And he demonstrated greatness in his films. Then you list some of them, Princess Bride, Stand By Me, Spinal Tap, and some of these, and just list them off. This man demonstrated all the greatness that I want to see return to Hollywood today. Okay, we mourn the loss with his wife. Okay, let’s say that he was totally classy and did it that way. Had he done this and been gracious, Reiner would forever be remembered as the crazy liberal with TDS who always attacked Trump. But Trump would be remembered as the one who spoke kindly of him after he was murdered. On this topic, Trump would look good forever and Reiner would look bad forever. Isn’t that true?
SPEAKER 08 :
It definitely would have been a better strategy.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I mean, totally a better strategy. And here’s the thing, folks. We’ve got to think strategically, not emotionally. Now, obviously what happened to Rob Reiner was horrifying. Just horrifying. Being stabbed to death, allegedly, by your son. But folks, politically, it was the greatest… I mean, it was a pot of gold on a platter handed to President Trump. This was the easiest win possible. In football terms, this was like your opponent giving you the ball on their one yard line and pulling their defense off the field. All you gotta do is walk in for the seven. Trump did the equivalent of taking the ball, running 99 yards the other way, and scoring for the other team. He took an incredibly easy win. If you are gracious and classy in this moment, you’re gonna score incredible points with who? That swing voter group. Instead, how do you think the swing voter group looked at it?
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s not good at all. Like I sort of mentioned, we talked about it briefly during the break. I don’t know Charlie Kirk. The most I heard about him was post-assassination. My girlfriend is, you know, a progressive. She follows the Democrat sphere. My experience post-Charlie Kirk assassination was a lot of Democrat or progressive left-leaning influencers saying, whoa. This is a tragedy. Let’s all be respectful. Hey, guys, let’s calm down. Let’s keep it nice and even. This is a terrible thing that’s happened.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know who else did that? Rob Reiner. He came out and said the same thing after Charlie Kirk was murdered.
SPEAKER 08 :
As someone who doesn’t know Charlie Kirk and doesn’t even know any of these influencers, seeing that response pulls me in their direction. I go, oh, I don’t know who any of these people are, but this is a classy thing that’s happening, and I really respect that. This is the exact opposite of that response, which reinforces my previous decision of, oh, I don’t.
SPEAKER 04 :
OK, now you’re reinforcing what I’m talking about with swing voters. Swing voters, folks, are just as emotional as people on the hard right and hard left. We’re all emotional. They’re fickle. They are moved by their emotions. If you give them a bad feeling about somebody, especially if you’re reinforcing those five words we already said about Trump that they already feel, which I disagree with. OK, but if they if they do that, you have now dug a deeper hole emotionally with them. We’ve got to win them back this year in 2026 coming up. That just became harder. Now, are they going to be thinking about this front of mind come November? Of course not. The news cycle moves on. A lot of things will happen. By the way, we’re going to have a booming economy in 26. Now you’re digging deeper. When you’re digging a hole, don’t dig down, dig out, okay? Now here’s the next one. I can go through several more. I’m not going to, I don’t want to take the time, but I got to do this next one because this is everywhere on the internet. Rob Reiner said he wished the shooter wouldn’t have missed Trump. He wished Trump had died. Folks, listen to me closely. That’s an internet myth, okay? It is a myth. I looked everywhere to try to find any confirmation of that, both on conservative and left-leaning sites. It’s nowhere. This comes from Grok, okay? No, Rob Reiner did not say he wanted Donald Trump dead. He was a vocal and longtime critic of Trump, frequently warning that Trump’s politics threaten America, yada, yada. I’m going to skip down. But he never… Ever called for this to happen. Claims circulating online, such as I’m reading from Grok, such as Reiner allegedly saying he wished a 2024 assassination attempt on Trump hadn’t missed or phrases like too bad he turned his head have been thoroughly debunked.
SPEAKER 08 :
And for our audience’s reference, Grok in this instance is the AI assistant developed by Elon Musk over there on X. So it’s not like a – if it has political bias, it would be towards Musk’s politics.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right. Exactly. Now, obviously, some of this fact-checking was done by Snopes, which is hard left. Fair enough. But, folks, I went to conservative sources. They had no – Quotes, they had no proof of any of this. Bottom line, there is no evidence that Rob Reiner wished that Trump had died.
SPEAKER 06 :
I mean, maybe an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think that matters. Whether he said it or not, do we not grow up in a world where two wrongs don’t make a right? Like, you cannot just say, oh, because he wished the president had died, he deserves to die.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s not how this works. Right. First of all, two wrongs don’t make a right. And secondly, get back to the opportunity. Remember, the worse Reiner was, the bigger the opportunity for Trump. The worse Reiner was, the better Trump looks if he’s gracious and classy in this moment. See, folks, my biggest problem here is not the heart of what Trump said. I know what Trump’s like. This is how he talks. This Queen’s thing that he does. I get it, okay? But it’s the strategy. Your opponent just gave you the ball on their one-yard line and pulled their defense off the field. Walk it in. Take the seven. All right? It’s so easy. And by the way, I don’t even blame Trump the most. I blame his advisors. Where were they? What were they thinking? Okay, let’s finish this up. Some others said Trump was gracious and measured in his post. Was he?
SPEAKER 08 :
We just read it.
SPEAKER 04 :
And last thing is they say none of this matters. It’s going to blow over. Now, by the way, that’s true. But folks, this will not be an issue in November. I understand that. But it just dug the hole deeper for Trump to have to dig out of.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, it may not be an issue in the future, but it’s an issue now. And for swing voters like Lou or leaners like me, that puts a really bad taste in my mouth.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Also, let’s not pretend that the past doesn’t influence the future. The discourse now influences the future discourse that is going to happen. Right. Right. So it’s like saying it’s all going to blow over is a dismissal of the issue, kind of pushes things more into that cult territory of, no, it is important now. We should talk about it now.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, let me wrap it up then because you just went where I was going to go. Okay. Again, folks, this isn’t about Trump. This is about us. This is about anybody listening to me right now who likes Donald Trump. I’m talking about you helping people vote for Trump in 26, winning voters. Listen closely. If we defend Trump with this post, how do we sound? Do we sound like supporters or cult members?
SPEAKER 08 :
Luke? Cult members, if you are defending this.
SPEAKER 04 :
Ashley? Cult members, 100%. Okay, folks, you may not like that, but these are the voters you have to win, okay? And one of them already leans your way, all right? Cult members don’t win voters, folks, and that’s what I’m trying to say. They’re the people you don’t want at your door or on your Facebook page. They’re the people you don’t want around. Why? Because take Trump out of it for a moment. Take religion out of it for a moment. If you have somebody who only always likes one kind of movie, they love slasher movies. It doesn’t matter if they’re rotten or good. They love them all. And then they recommend a slasher movie to you. Do you believe them? No. No, you’re not going to take him seriously. And the big word is this. I’m going to close with this. Credibility. If you want credibility so you can sell Trump to voters in 2026, folks, please do not defend this post. It’s not going to help you. It’s going to hurt you and thereby hurt Trump. It’s not a good idea. Fair enough, guys?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 10 :
Now back to Rush to Reason on KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 04 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560, Andy Pate filling in for John Rush, along with Ashley Cart. And we got Luke Cashman. All right, he’s all man. Folks, we just built a bridge. Okay, this was built down in, let’s see here, near Larkspur, and it goes over I-25. It is the largest in North America. It’s a wildlife overpass. Nice. It’s got grass on it and all this kind of stuff.
SPEAKER 08 :
We need more of those. I almost hit a deer last night. It was scary.
SPEAKER 04 :
Here’s my question. It costs $15 million. That’s a lot of money. That’s a lot of money. And so my question is, I’m not against the idea in principle, because you’re right. But I got two questions. If a deer is not within, say, a quarter to a half mile of this thing, how do they know to take it?
SPEAKER 06 :
They don’t.
SPEAKER 04 :
OK, so we’re going to have like people out there cracking the whip and maybe get dogs to herd them over this thing. I think that’d be kind of cool. OK, how is this actually going to work? I like the idea in principle, but 15 million for something. I just wonder how much it’s going to be used. What do you think?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I like the idea in principle. Like I said, I almost hit a deer last night. It was a real close call. And I live kind of out in the boonies, so I see dead deer all the time littering the road.
SPEAKER 04 :
Especially where I drive.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, it’s a weird coincidence. I’m looking at the bridge. This does not look like a $15 million bridge. Like I said, I agree with the principle. I think that’s a lot of money for not a lot of bridge.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, I’m going to give you a truth that should be inscribed in Scripture. Government don’t make cheap things. No. Okay? Just saying. Ashley, what do you think?
SPEAKER 06 :
I mean, I think it will be used because animals have at least somewhat of an intelligence to go like, oh, look, I can go over here. But it’s not going to be this immense life-altering thing. It’s going to be that one section will have less activity of cars hitting deer, but then every other section of the highway is going to keep hitting them.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, I think I know how we can make this thing work and make it worthwhile. Tolls. I got the answer. So there you go. I have now figured it out. Folks, that’s it for our number one. And our two, I’ve actually got two movie reviews just in time for Christmas. SpongeBob, The Search for Square Pants, and David. We’re also looking at how some of the biggest films are doing. And if you want to call in and talk politics or movies, interrupt us all you want. 303-477-5600. Until then, keep it right here on Rush to Reason, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 09 :
Average Guys. Average Guys.
SPEAKER 1 :
Average Guys.
