In this episode of A Guy’s Perspective, the hosts delve into the profound and challenging topic of dementia, exploring its impact on individuals and their families. Guest speaker Michael Hand shares his heartfelt journey through his wife’s dementia diagnosis, detailing the subtle signs that surfaced and the heavy emotional and physical toll it took on their lives. The conversation sheds light on the different types of dementia, emphasizing the complexity and individuality of each case. Listeners are invited to consider the societal and personal implications of dementia, particularly within the context of a healthcare system that often leaves families
SPEAKER 05 :
I can’t hide myself I don’t expect you to understand I just hope I can explain What it’s like to be a man It’s a lonely road And they don’t care about what you know It’s not about how you feel But what you provide inside that home
SPEAKER 02 :
Welcome to A Guy’s Perspective, where they discuss real life topics that men today are dealing with, whether married, single parent, or just single. We invite you to call into this live program with your comments and questions. And here they are.
SPEAKER 10 :
how’s everybody doing today this is the guys perspective on klc 560 am you can always talk to the guys at 303-477-5600 again that’s 303-477-5600 let’s go around the room and introduce ourselves we have a guest but before we get to him we’ll introduce the guys this is andre your local business owner with the guys perspective
SPEAKER 03 :
This here is Heath Hine, the actor, and windshield crack master.
SPEAKER 10 :
This is Brock. I’m your local janitor. And introduce yourself.
SPEAKER 07 :
Good afternoon. My name is Michael Hand. I’m from Cheyenne, and I’m just a guy.
SPEAKER 10 :
He’s going to fit in perfectly.
SPEAKER 03 :
We’re going to get his perspective right now.
SPEAKER 10 :
True that, man. What’s the weather like in Cheyenne?
SPEAKER 07 :
Let me look out the window.
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh, he’s perfect just like Denver, huh? I might be moving to Cheyenne.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, do you know what Wyoming without the wind is?
SPEAKER 03 :
No. Colorado?
SPEAKER 10 :
Colorado.
SPEAKER 07 :
We had quite a windstorm a couple weeks ago, and half the trees in town are down. And actually what happened is we designed the buildings kind of angle into the wind, and one day the wind quit and all the buildings fell over. Wow.
SPEAKER 08 :
Where’s that rim chop?
SPEAKER 03 :
He’s just like you. Yeah, he has all them jokes. I love it, Michael.
SPEAKER 10 :
So today, everybody, we’re talking about dementia. And let’s get started. So tell us a little bit about yourself and how you ended up writing your own. So for listeners, we’re going to be talking about his book and dementia. First off, how can they buy your book? Can you let…
SPEAKER 07 :
there’s a website called amazon.com and if you search for abc’s for dementia caregivers or My co-author’s name is Gapen, G-A-P-E-N, and that’s pretty easy to search. If you search for her name, you’ll come up with a whole laundry list of books about computer programming, and then this one. She’s a brilliant computer programmer, wrote all kinds of books about programming. Forgive me, Patrice, if you’re listening. The AS400 Computer… that actually IBM incorporated as a part of selling the project, as a part of selling the computer. And when our spouses got dementia, she said, we need to write a book about this because nobody else really has any kind of instruction manual. And I thought, boy, is that not the truth? And I’m going to go way off on a tangent here, gentlemen.
SPEAKER 10 :
Have your freedom, man.
SPEAKER 07 :
Take over. When you take your wife or for you ladies, your husband to the neurologist, my experience was, oh, you got dementia. Come back in six months. You know, if you have a broken leg or a. plug sinus or a hangnail, they’ll give you a literature, right? I got no literature on what to do. It’s like come back in six months and you’re dealing with this person who looks just like your spouse, but they’re not, they are somebody totally different. And I mean, I could go into all kinds of stories about the things that happen with dementia. But you’re looking at this person, it’s nobody you’ve ever known before.
SPEAKER 08 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 07 :
And you needed a guidebook or I needed a guidebook for how do you deal with these things? What are the situations?
SPEAKER 09 :
Got a question. Is there any support groups like my son had cerebral palsy and they had a cerebral palsy group, you know, for parenting, etc. I’ve never really heard about a group for spouses. I mean, that’s that’d be huge. Is there any that you’re aware of?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, you kind of… Or are you the progenitor per se? Well, certainly I don’t want to be the leader of that, but the Alzheimer’s Associations of America, I don’t remember their phone number, but look them up. They are a tremendous resource because when… Well, another story. I’ve got to lead with this story, which is when I really realized I had a problem. When a woman with dementia thinks thinks her husband is having an affair in the basement and she calls the police at three o’clock in the morning guess who gets told to leave the house wow being the man and as as the man you get told to leave the house so that was when that was when i finally realized all the lights went on oh my god i really have a problem and so i called the doctor the neurologist well you could call the Alzheimer’s Association, they were wonderful. They had, I want to call it an underground support system, and some people there you could at least talk to. And we found some support and some help for her. Mm-hmm. And, I mean, I could go in a million different directions with that story. But it was finally somebody you could reach out to because every once in a while, even as a guy, you need a lifeline. Right. You need a lifeline. I was drowning. And they pointed me into some places. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 03 :
So, Michael, to take it back to the beginning where you said you go in with your wife to the hospital and you talk with doctors and they just say come back in six months. They just want to check like cognitive decline at that time. They want to see how fast it’s advancing. What happens from that point?
SPEAKER 07 :
And they would adjust her meds. They wouldn’t tell me what the meds were for. They’d say, oh, take some of these and some of those and some of these other purple pills. And so she’d take them and, you know, she’d go to bed. I’d say, well, did you take your pills? And, well, no. So you go get them for her. But I didn’t know what they were. I mean, I’m an engineer. I’m not a doctor, so I don’t sit there with the PDR going, oh, this is for, you know, lump huckaroo or something.
SPEAKER 10 :
Sure. I’m just wondering, so is dementia the same as Alzheimer’s? Is there a difference or is it?
SPEAKER 07 :
I’m so glad you asked that, Brock.
SPEAKER 03 :
Did you not read his book? Because I read some of his book.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, I’ve been studying on it.
SPEAKER 07 :
But this is a good point for the audience. And that is, dementia is like an umbrella term. There’s all different kinds of dementia. There’s Alzheimer’s, there’s Lewy body, there’s frontotemporal, there’s six or eight other kinds. And for the doctors out there, I probably got the number wrong. Please forgive me. I’m just a guy. who lived through it. And so each one of these dementias presents itself with different characteristics. Alzheimer’s, as most people are aware, kind of the loss of memory, loss of, you know, the patient sort of regresses in time with, in my case, Lewy body dementia. I’m convinced she had Lewy body dementia, but after the autopsy, They didn’t find any Lewy bodies, but it’s characterized by hallucinations. And my wife would complain about the radio. The same song over and over. In fact, one time she called the neighbor and said, turn that radio off. The neighbor was in Phoenix. Wow. He hadn’t been home in three months. But she heard that, and then she would imagine these things, and it got to the point where she was imagining cockroaches that were attacking her. When we got her out to Fort Morgan, I’ve got to give a shout-out to the people out at Fort Morgan at Colorado Plains. They got her squared away, but she thought she was in a prisoner of war camp in Germany, and they’d flown her to Germany.
SPEAKER 11 :
Go ahead. Doesn’t that kind of sound like schizophrenia? When you actually have those kind of symptoms, those are similar to schizophrenia.
SPEAKER 07 :
I’m not a doctor. I couldn’t speak to that. I know I lived through this. Sure.
SPEAKER 09 :
That sounds like a strong correlation. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER 11 :
I had one more question to that. Was there earlier signs of that prior to her and you cheating on her in the basement?
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay, let me answer that by, forgive me, telling another story. My wife grew up in the Army. Her father was a general. Her brother was a lieutenant colonel. And she was probably the most elegant woman I have ever met. She would put on a dinner party for 12, four-course dinner party, just for something to do on a Friday night. And during the 2017 eclipse, we threw a big party for her family from all over the country. And that was her opportunity to be the grande dame of the family. And she showed up looking like the best dressed homeless person I’d ever met. And I said, there’s something wrong here. So that was where it became. And even earlier than that, it was like, could we get through the fireworks without you complaining about something? It was just, dementia starts so subtly. Just, oh, that’s not good. the way you normally are, and you overlook it, and you overlook it, and it goes on a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. Next thing you know, it’s like somebody’s calling the police at 3 o’clock in the morning.
SPEAKER 09 :
You know, I do know that certain forms of dementia kind of replicate, you know, just generally getting older, right? Right. Forgetting names or what, just repeating a conversation. What’s your name? Yeah, exactly, yeah. Oh, I have it written down here. Good thing I wrote it down, huh?
SPEAKER 08 :
That’s what I have to do.
SPEAKER 09 :
When did this start to progress? I mean, was it years when you initially said, okay, now I’ve got to actually go to the doctor because, you know, I need to find out an answer. Because I imagine if you’re a spouse of this, it seems like you’re the one going crazy, right? I mean, were you the one that basically started looking at yourself and saying like, Man, am I seeing this? Gaslight. It’s almost like a gaslight per se, right? With the exception of the intentional lying.
SPEAKER 07 :
And I’m not sure I understand all of your question, but maybe I can just answer it by saying, you know, you take your wife to the doctor for regular checkup. Okay. And you do start wondering about, is this the person I know? And, I mean, you guys are married. You understand kind of the dynamics of a married relationship. Sure. And there’s the pluses and the minuses, but you get to the point where it’s almost a separation. You’re living in other parts of the house where it’s like, I can’t even stand you. Go ahead, Brock.
SPEAKER 10 :
If there’s no cure for dementia, what can a person do to slow it down? I wish I knew. Okay.
SPEAKER 07 :
There are… At this time, there are certain drugs that have been tested that supposedly slow it down or minimize the effects. Right now, I don’t know of any cure or anything that even ameliorates the effect. And again, I’m not a doctor. I’m just a guy who lived through this. So, go ahead, Andrej.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, I guess what I’m trying to get at is if you’re the audience listening and you suspect your spouse or whoever, because dementia typically starts at an older age, correct?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yes, it does.
SPEAKER 09 :
It’s rare that it starts at a younger age. What were the little things that tipped you off aside from, I mean, was he repeating conversations, like asking the same questions, or was it just like you said, was that the affair, the quote-unquote affair in the basement? Was that the…
SPEAKER 07 :
You know, that was the tipping point, but it is so subtle. It could be something as little as not finishing the dishes or putting the dishes into the clothes washer. That’s weird. Sure. But, okay, we all have a bad day. Or, you know, maybe she was storing something. I mean, I’ve heard and spoken with so many people that, you know, they find the milk out on the street or something. And go ahead.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and I’d just like to say that sometimes that’s what we do in a marriage is we compromise. You don’t pick that battle. You’re like, hey, you put milk on the ceiling, on the roof. Right. You’ve got to reason. No, you’re exactly right.
SPEAKER 07 :
And the point you make is so true, Heath, that this is the person you love. This is the person you promised to take care of for the rest. You got down on one knee and said, would you watch me die? And you think, well, I’m going to take care of it. Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
We don’t think it’s going to happen to us.
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, it never is going to happen to us until it does. It never does. And that’s the whole purpose of this is you don’t get – you don’t go – Let me back up about two steps. When I was in Boy Scouts, they taught me how to splint a broken leg. They didn’t tell me how to deal with somebody with dementia. Sure.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right, right. Yeah, as you were talking about some of the signs, it’s so similar because I dealt with something like that with my sister. She was on drugs, but she was completely on Xanax pills. She had took so many that her liver was dying. But some of those same symptoms she was doing, she would be outside in the yard playing, you know, setting up tea tables, playing, you know, Christmas time with dolls. But she’s, you know, it’s summertime and it’s in July.
SPEAKER 09 :
And she was adult, right?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, she’s 45, you know, playing Christmas with dolls outside in the yard. And so you just, you don’t grasp it.
SPEAKER 03 :
And B, was that schizophrenia?
SPEAKER 09 :
No, no.
SPEAKER 11 :
She was on Xanic pills. She was so high, her liver was dying.
SPEAKER 09 :
And I kind of wonder, too, if that, you know, some forms of dementia are medicated or prescription-related dementia. Would you say, I mean, because sometimes… Is it possible that there, or is that a choice?
SPEAKER 07 :
There is, there is in, in the, in the medical literature, there’s, there’s several times. In fact, there’s even alcohol related dementia. So there’s, there’s a whole bunch, but there’s the, you know, the big four, the, the Alzheimer’s, the Lewy body, the frontotemporal and the vascular.
SPEAKER 10 :
And people, you can call at 303-477-5600 if you have questions. This is a really good topic.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, I was going to say, getting back for the Alzheimer’s, it’s azz.org. Is that correct? A-L-Z.
SPEAKER 08 :
A-L-Z.
SPEAKER 09 :
I can’t read my own name.
SPEAKER 07 :
Good Lord.
SPEAKER 09 :
Alpha Lima Zulu for you phonetic people. 1-800-272-
SPEAKER 07 :
3,900. That sounds correct. They are wonderful people, and the people at the Lewy Body Association, who I also had to deal with, or got to deal with. I shouldn’t say had to. Sure. I was fortunate enough to meet them. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 10 :
Can reading lower the risk of dementia? Because I was looking it up, and it said that a person who is continually exercising their brain, it can lower their chance by 40% to 50% of getting it. Is that true? No.
SPEAKER 07 :
Again, I’m not a doctor. My wife was a huge reader. In fact, she was a reader up until the day she died. When she was in the nursing home, in the memory care unit, I would go to the used bookstore and I had a special account. Here’s this week’s supply. Give me another author. Wow.
SPEAKER 10 :
But did you do that to help combat the dementia or she just really liked to read?
SPEAKER 07 :
Let me answer that in a different way. Okay. When you’re dealing with a dementia person, they get irritated or agitated quite easily. So one of the things that I always wanted was just to keep them calm, anything to keep her calm. And she did that by reading. So as long as I kept her in books, she was fine. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 09 :
I’ve got a question. So I was reading up a little bit on it too. It looks like in some people, diet is a factor, even possibly cardiovascular health, things like that. Did your wife have any other things that kind of may have been lined up with her dementia diagnosis?
SPEAKER 07 :
If that’s the case, I’m probably going to get dementia. I hear that, yeah. Sleep apnea? Yeah. She was a wonderful cook. She could make anything. And the best thing was she knew how to make my steak really well. That’s awesome. So I don’t know of any tie-in to do. I’m going to guess there are healthy people and unhealthy people. But let me maybe branch off that just a little bit. Okay. Because in this, I’m going to get on my soapbox for just a moment, if I may. Yeah. i believe that we in the united states are on the cusp of a tsunami of dementia and it’s and i don’t mean that to sound like a bad thing because the reason why we’re here is the medical industry is so good oh my goodness they’re keeping us alive so long yeah that we’re now to the point we’ve dealt with all of these diseases. Now the next one is, that’s just my opinion.
SPEAKER 03 :
I may be wrong. It’s a bit of a final frontier for us because we are living older and longer because we’re being kept alive medically and through drug pharmaceuticals and such like that.
SPEAKER 07 :
I’m probably 15 years past natural death right now, just based on the quality medical care I’m getting. Yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay. Yeah. A part of your book gets into how much you should need to know how much it’s going to cost. Oh.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. That’s a good question. Start writing checks.
SPEAKER 10 :
What do you mean by that? Explain.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well. Eventually, the afflicted, and I’m not going to call the patient because the victims of dementia are the family. The afflicted person, eventually the family cannot take care of them. It costs, I don’t even remember what the number was. My wife died four years ago, and I think we were paying $7,000 a month for her care at the comfort care facility or memory care facility.
SPEAKER 10 :
Mm-hmm. Is that outside of insurance? That’s just out of pocket, huh?
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s what you get to pay. And let me answer that this way, Brock. It’s $7,000 or you will kill yourself keeping her alive. Sure.
SPEAKER 09 :
And that brings me to a question about that, being a caregiver. I mean, I was a caregiver of my son. And, you know, not too many people realize when you’re called to be a caregiver, whether it’s as a parent, as the spouse to a significant other, we face an insurmountable amount of stress outside of everything we do because you and I, you know, you as the husband, you weren’t made, you know, to be a caregiver for your own spouse, nor, you know, was I as a parent. As a parent, I was supposed to be able to enjoy my son. You know, and as a husband, you were supposed to be able to enjoy that lifelong process of aging with your wife or your spouse. So how did that affect you?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, you start sleeping with one eye open. And as somebody who’s taking care of a sick son, I’m probably not telling you anything you don’t know. You are exhausted from the time you get up to the time you go to bed. And you just want them to settle down to where maybe you can get a 20-minute nap and maybe a quick shower. So maybe I’m not answering your question. No, you’re not.
SPEAKER 09 :
I mean, it’s huge because I think we focus so much on the condition of the disease that sometimes we forget about the unsung heroes, you know, of those that have to take care because out of love and, you know, such. There is a term called dementia.
SPEAKER 07 :
Caregiver burnout. Oh, and there is a statistic and. I wish I had my friend Patrice here because she knows it right off the top of her head. There’s a certain number of caregivers who actually die taking care of their spouse with dementia. It is a real issue. And Brock, you and I were talking about this before the show. We as guys… we want to be superman we want to be bigger than the problem and there’s nothing that she can throw at us that that we can’t deal with or at least that’s in our mind and and we want to we want to be bigger than that and eventually We’re not. So go ahead, Heath.
SPEAKER 03 :
I’d just like to say with that burnout, first and foremost, I mean, anybody who’s experiencing that and they’re caring for somebody, I mean, we applaud you. Yeah. Well, thank you.
SPEAKER 07 :
I didn’t do anything that a million other people aren’t doing.
SPEAKER 03 :
And see, my wife, she takes care of animals. So, I mean, I’m comparing animals to humans and stuff, but she gets burned out quite often because it’s always balancing. The life of the animal is always in the balance. And so sometimes I guess my correlation is going to be that the compromise of keeping the animal alive with either three legs or, you know, they got to care for it all the time. At least they get the option of coming to euthanasia at some point. Right. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER 07 :
Which is a very hard realization. That becomes… A huge mental issue for the caregiver.
SPEAKER 03 :
What is quality of life? How long do I do this?
SPEAKER 07 :
When does the afflicted go from living to being alive? To existing. Wow. Wow. And, well, my co-author, Patrice, she’s dealing with this right now. My hat’s off to you, Patrice, if you’re listening. Because her father is facing this disease right now.
SPEAKER 03 :
And so… That’s a very hard thing to address.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 10 :
I guess what I want to know, and maybe we should talk about this on the other side, but do you ever wish you could take that person’s place? I mean, was it so traumatizing? Because my dad, when my mom was passing away, she obviously passed away from cancer, but she had a lot of hallucination going on and the whole nine yards. um years later i asked him i was like they were married for almost 40 years i’m like do you wish you could have took her place and he’s like most definitely um how do you feel about thinking like that do you wish you could have took her place or
SPEAKER 07 :
No, I don’t. Okay. When I married her, I knew I would bury her. Wow. So I didn’t want to do that. And four years looking back on it, I’m still enjoying life.
SPEAKER 10 :
I’m living life to the fullest. How long did she have dementia for, if you don’t mind us asking?
SPEAKER 07 :
I don’t know. Again, Brock, you don’t know, you know, it’s not like breaking your leg or, you know, a stroke or something like that. You can’t go and say this is where it was. It was probably from around 2015 or 2016 to 2021. So around five years. And there are so many things that fold into that. But it’s like I was telling Heath, you know, that’s not like you. And then, you know, anyway, moving on.
SPEAKER 03 :
I just want to second on, like, what Brock was saying about, like, would we want to trade places? And I think any of us that love and have endured through that love would never want the loved one to endure that as well. That’s the hell that you don’t want them to have.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, I tend to agree with you, too. You know, I… I always said that about my son and I would, but you know, dementia, I, I remember going to the hospital for a PE and, uh, I could hear this adult crying down the wing, and I just thought they were just in pain. And finally the nurse just told me, no, you don’t want that. It’s considered the long death, I think.
SPEAKER 07 :
The long goodbye is what they call dementia. The long goodbye. You see this, and there’s a page of it in the book. You see this person you love who lights up your life. And then you see them deteriorate. And then you see them deteriorate again. And then you think it can’t get any worse. And then it does. Wow. And eventually you get you one. The caregiver says. I’ve had enough. And that’s when the hospice word comes to play.
SPEAKER 10 :
And people, catch us on the other side at 303-477-5600. This is an excellent show. We’re talking about dementia. If you know anyone who’s dealing with it, call in. We’ll try to answer some questions.
SPEAKER 09 :
We have the ABCs for Dementia Caregivers, a handbook for caregivers. By Petrigeus Kappen and Michael Hand. Correct. In office.
SPEAKER 10 :
And we’ll talk to you all on the other side. Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
I can’t hide myself. I don’t expect you to understand. I just hope I can explain what it’s like to be a man. It’s a lonely
SPEAKER 01 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker and do not necessarily reflect those of Crawford Broadcasting, the station, management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hello, my name is Arino, owner of Blueprint Electric, where we specialize in all that’s electrical, from residential service calls to ground-up commercial construction. You can reach us at 303-218-3555. Also, visit our website at bpedenver.com. Thank you for listening to A Guide’s Perspective here at KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 03 :
If you have a stone break, bullseye, star, or crack up to 18 inches in your windshield, Clearview’s got you covered. And if you need a full windshield replacement or calibration, Clearview got you covered too.
SPEAKER 06 :
Windshield, brand new, Clearview.
SPEAKER 03 :
Give us a call or text at 303-229-7442.
SPEAKER 09 :
Whoa! Hey there, this is Andre with Advanced Tech Electric. From electrical panel upgrades or flickering lights, we do commercial and residential work. Actually, what don’t we do electrical? Give us a call at 720-581-4399, your local Denver metro and surrounding areas of Colorado, or book us online at a5280service.com. Thanks again.
SPEAKER 10 :
As a guy’s perspective, our mission is simple, to provide men with tools and resources to empower men to fulfill their purpose. With that being said, if you have a donation of any sort, whether it’s a car, truck, motorcycle, RV, house, or land, if these things are no longer being used, the guy’s perspective would like you to consider us as a donation partner. By doing so, you’re helping The Guys Perspective to give back to the community. And as always, you can find us at theguysperspective.org or you can email us at theguysperspective5 at gmail.com.
SPEAKER 05 :
I can’t hide myself. I don’t expect you to understand. I just hope I can explain what it’s like to be.
SPEAKER 02 :
Welcome to A Guy’s Perspective, where they discuss real-life topics that men today are dealing with, whether married, single parent, or just single. We invite you to call into this live program with your comments and questions. And here they are.
SPEAKER 10 :
How’s everybody doing this afternoon on this beautiful day? You can call in and talk to the guys at 303-477-5600. We’re talking dementia. We have Michael Hand in studio with us. And so we’re just going to dive right back into it. So some of the symptoms of dementia are memory loss, cognitive decline, behavioral change, communication difficulties. Out of those four, what do you think was the first thing that you noticed first?
SPEAKER 07 :
None of the above. I would say the first thing I noticed looking back on it is hearing loss.
SPEAKER 10 :
Hearing loss wasn’t even in anything that I studied.
SPEAKER 07 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 10 :
Exactly.
SPEAKER 07 :
And I don’t know what the connection is, but, you know, the dementia becomes, you know, the brain starts shutting down, for lack of a better term. And it seemed to me that she had a harder and harder time hearing me. Wow. Now, I mean, we’re all married, and, you know. I agree with that. You’re talking through a guy’s perspective.
SPEAKER 03 :
My wife says I don’t listen to her, so.
SPEAKER 10 :
Or something like that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 10 :
So continue. So you felt like it was the hearing loss. Like she wasn’t hearing what you were saying?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, she wasn’t hearing me, but she was hearing other things.
SPEAKER 09 :
Was there an actual hearing test? I mean, is it literal or is it just the…
SPEAKER 07 :
You know, you’re asking me to go way back in time, Andre, and I don’t remember. I think there was a hearing test, and they said the hearing was okay. So it may have been that the brain was trying to make connections that were there. And then the other first symptom, I would say, and again, we’re talking about we’re a married couple, just kind of a short temper. little shorter than I’m used to and again this this woman who I was married to was brilliant and suddenly there’s little things like well how come you couldn’t figure that out you know I don’t know whether it was you know doing the dishes or something like that just something little that we’re all married to wonderful women and they’re smart and they can do a lot of things and then it’s like, oh, that’s not the person I know. And it’s so subtle when it starts. And you see me shaking because it’s so subtle. But it becomes, it’s not just one, it’s two or three or four or five. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 11 :
Without giving your book away, what are some suggestions you can give to a caregiver to help them?
SPEAKER 07 :
Sleep every chance you get. Andre’s nodding his head. Sleep every chance you get. And it’s so hard to remind yourself of this, but it’s not them. It sure looks like them. That looks like the person you married. But suddenly they’re growing horns or something. They are not the person. You married a person with a mind. And that mind is changing.
SPEAKER 09 :
Wow. So the book, again, is the ABCs for Dementia Caregivers. A Handbook for Caregivers. And in one of your chapters, you actually explain or talk a little bit what you call the belligerence beyond belief. Is that… Oh, the belligerence.
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh. That… I would venture, again, I’m just one guy. We can send it to the psychologist studies in colleges and stuff. But I would venture that’s when people really begin to realize they’ve got a problem. And I’ll just tell you another little, again, it’s these little life stories that illustrate what’s going on. We were at the doctor, and the doctor says to my wife, you need to get some help around the house. Mike is killing himself, taking care of you and taking care of the house. Sure. Well, all he does is make microwave meals.
SPEAKER 03 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 07 :
And that’s all she recalled, huh?
SPEAKER 03 :
And just becomes kind of invalidating and harsh when it was never harsh before. It was like a loving, caring… Yeah, exactly. And they were on your side.
SPEAKER 07 :
And all he does is make microwave meals. And I’m sitting here thinking… Okay. That’s not true. If that’s your way of asking for a divorce… Right.
SPEAKER 10 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. So then, yeah, one would become quite offended and begin to take everything as an offense.
SPEAKER 07 :
I was. I thought, I’m busting my… Self. And trying to take care of you, take care of the house, take care of the dog. And now all he does is make microwave meals.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s the thanks I get, right?
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s exactly it. So that may be the point. It’s that belligerence. It’s that…
SPEAKER 03 :
Unless a relationship already had that in it, right? So you have to know your spouse real well to be like, this is different.
SPEAKER 07 :
And the thing is, going back to that, how long before that had that been happening? Have you just taken that as, well, that’s how normal is now? Or is that part of the disease? It’s so… I hate to keep belaboring the point. It’s so subtle when it starts. But then when she calls the police at 3 o’clock in the morning, you know you’ve got a problem.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah. And part of your book alludes to the anger. And I’m sure the anger is, you know, obviously you have a few captions here regarding anger. And I’m sure it’s the anger first. Well, the person realizing that they are there, but they’re not there. They’re missing. They know they were a healthy mind, but I’m sure there’s some type of exasperation on their part trying to figure out what is going on with my brain. How come it’s not functioning the way it used to? I mean, it’s like losing an arm and then realizing, well, I can’t even pick a tool up or answer a phone call like I used to be able to, right? I mean, on a simplistic level.
SPEAKER 07 :
You’re exactly right, Andre. In fact, Robin Williams… the actor, had Lewy body dementia, and he used to complain, what I really want to do is just push the reset button on my brain, like restart the computer. That’s what I really want to do. If I just push the reset button, it’d all be cleared up. But when you push the reset button on a human brain, It doesn’t boot back up.
SPEAKER 10 :
Wow. So Robin Williams, I didn’t know that.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, and Robin Williams is an individual who took matters into his own hands because he did not want to.
SPEAKER 10 :
Because he committed suicide, right?
SPEAKER 03 :
Because he did not want to deal with this. Right. Wow.
SPEAKER 09 :
He was really depressive, too. I didn’t realize that either. He had a few things.
SPEAKER 10 :
If you could go back 20 years in time and you know what you know now, what would you have done different for your spouse? If you knew she was going to have it and you could step back in time, have you ever thought about that?
SPEAKER 07 :
I never have because I don’t even have reverse in my car. Okay. But if I could do that, I would probably make myself be a little more forgiving, a little more understanding.
SPEAKER 10 :
that’s the short answer because what i’ve i’ve read about it most doctors call it a disease so so it’s almost like you gotta approach it with like and i don’t know anybody who’s ever had it um so i wonder if you have to approach it like any disease where somebody doesn’t realize what’s happening and so i wonder if it could be combated with with, like you’re saying, compassion and forgiveness. I don’t know.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, let me address that, and then we’ll go, Andre. But when… When you start out, if you go to the doctor and you’ve got a broken arm, you can see it. Or, you know, Andre, your son, you can see it on the x-ray or on the scan or, you know, on a CT or something. You can see it. And the doctor can say, see, there it is. And you can watch it progress. And with dementia, you can’t see it start.
SPEAKER 09 :
that’s amazing it’s just it presents by presenting itself i may have it right here right now wow yeah i was gonna say you’re you know with my son when he had a cerebral palsy you know anyone could see because because he was in a wheelchair but when it comes to behavioral or you know dementia related you know things like that it’s hard and i imagine it was i mean for my son The children would look at him and ask questions. Adults would feel pity for him. But it’s hard, in my opinion, being a caregiver in what you had to do because it’s hard to answer the question. you know, my wife has a dementia, you know, please excuse the angry outbursts or the odd behavior or such, right? Because we don’t see that. If I look at Brian, for instance, let’s just say, you know, he’s a little, you know, he’s a little special in my opinion, but I think he rode the short bus, but, you know, I mean, I… I can’t clearly see it. God, I love this show, man. But I can relate in what you’re saying. Yeah, it’s not an easy thing to recognize, right?
SPEAKER 07 :
And what happens is friend and family will say, well, where’s your wife’s name, Joanne? Oh, she’s at home. Well, how is she? Good days and bad days. That was my standard, good days and bad days.
SPEAKER 11 :
Knowing how destructive it is and you’ve seen it firsthand, has it changed anything in your life? Have you changed anything so that maybe you can reduce the chances of having dementia yourself?
SPEAKER 07 :
I don’t know what causes it, Brian.
SPEAKER 11 :
I don’t know what… Well, there’s certain measures you can take to try to reduce it.
SPEAKER 07 :
I’ve cut down my drinking, but… I don’t know that there’s anything other than age is the main cause.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, because I looked into it and did some research, and it said 45% if you do rigorous exercise, you can reduce from exercising.
SPEAKER 07 :
You better start exercising, dude. Well, yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s pretty good. Rigorous exercise could cut it by 45%. That’s half almost.
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s pretty good. And I do work out. I mean, you can’t tell it. It’s just a baggy shirt.
SPEAKER 10 :
But go ahead. And no, no, no. I’m letting him finish telling.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, if I knew, you know, there was a magic portal I could walk through. I don’t know if I would because I don’t know how much I want to change the life I’m living right now.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER 07 :
I’m living a wonderful life. I’m doing things. I’m enjoying things. And you’ve got to balance everything between short-term gain and long-term gain, or short-term pain and long-term gain. So… Right now, I think I’m doing what I can. But, again, it goes back to we’re all living so long. Maybe I just want to live a long time and die in a nursing home.
SPEAKER 09 :
I get it. And, you know, I thought Brian was going to ask the question about, you know, you now. Now that you’ve experienced being a caregiver for your wife with dementia. Yeah. How has that changed your world now that she’s passed and such?
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay. And that’s a different question, and I’ll answer it this way. I have a list of names next to my breakfast table of people in my life who have died at a younger age than me. Wow. And it reminds me every morning to get out and live life to the fullest because look at all these people who are larger than life people. Uncles, never be as old as I am. Get out and live your life because we don’t know how much longer we’ve got or how much longer we’re going to have to enjoy it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I’d like to say one of the things, and I don’t know if I’m different than many people, but I don’t often mourn the dead. So what I mean by that is I mourn the living. I mourn those that are left behind after they’ve lost somebody or had to deal with the hardship and tragedy of either loss or enduring. So…
SPEAKER 09 :
He’s a narcissist.
SPEAKER 03 :
And it’s because, I mean, I’d like to say it’s because of my faith. I mean, I know that they’re gods. They belong to God already, right? And I don’t think that there’s no more pain, no more sorrow, no more suffering or anything like that for them. And so it’s just… I think it’s important to remember the most… valuable thing, which is all of the good memories that led up to the hardship and the tragedies and then, um, and, and, and, uh, in like you’re doing now, which is living life to the fullest, um, when others are, are, are past and gone.
SPEAKER 08 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I hope that’s not too harsh. No, no.
SPEAKER 07 :
I think maybe I could address that a little bit. You say you don’t mourn the dead. You miss them. And I think people who mourn the dead probably mourn what they didn’t do with or for the person who just passed.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, because of missed opportunities for the things that they, that’s exactly it, I think.
SPEAKER 07 :
You know, the old expression, live every day like it’s your last, I don’t buy. Yeah. Because if you lived every day like it was your last, I’d be a narcissist like Brian.
SPEAKER 03 :
That would be your last day right there. He wants Brian out.
SPEAKER 07 :
The thing is, the thing is, live every day like it’s someone else’s last.
SPEAKER 11 :
Wow. That’s beautiful. Well, I got one quick question. Because I remember you talking about the first signs was hearing loss. I mean, if you knew now what you knew then, would you get her some hearing aids?
SPEAKER 09 :
No. I did. Oh, you did? Oh, yeah. We got her hearing aids. The way I take it is, my son had a cochlear implant, so essentially it’s the way your brain interprets the hearing. When a person gets a cochlear implant, the brain has to learn how to interpret the digitized tones. and be able to recognize the speech pattern, and then they can do that. So essentially with dementia, it sounds like there’s a breakdown or a deterioration.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, no different than in Alzheimer’s. People are, they start, and again, I’m just making this up because it makes sense as an engineer. Your brain is trying to build a pattern of something that it recognizes out of these kind of specious signals. And it’s trying to build something together that it can interpret. And that it spits out, you know, a six-foot cockroach.
SPEAKER 10 :
Were there ever days where your wife, one second she’s dealing with it, then the next second she’s perfectly fine? Or was it always continual? That’s a good question. Intermittent.
SPEAKER 07 :
There probably were better days. Okay. Yes, there were good days, and it was like, why can’t this be every day? And a lot of times that goes to what they call show timing. And the way I make the analogy is your brain is like a muscle. You can work out. You can work your brain a little bit. And sometimes you can push a little harder than even you thought you could. And I think sometimes like when you go to the doctor, you can show timing. You can say, yeah, I’m good and I’ve got it all together and yada, yada, yada. Yeah. Then you walk out and it’s like, why can’t she be like that all the time? Life would be so good. And then they just go home and they crash.
SPEAKER 10 :
Wow. I wonder if that’s like that because they know they’re in a safe place around safe people, even though they’re changing so much. I don’t know. You know what I’m saying?
SPEAKER 07 :
I almost see it as being on stage.
SPEAKER 03 :
show timing like you said wow well you know wow and to that point i’m not sure if i read it in your book or or saw um this woman on youtube talk about it but what happens in a lot of cases of of dementia dementia caregivers is they will transport somebody and take them to the doctor but they won’t go into the doctor with them and if they don’t go into the doctor with them tell us about that what happens michael why then they will make they will just
SPEAKER 07 :
Show time for the doctor. Oh, all is good. I can give you the answer you want. I’m taking my pills. Everything is good. I’m taking a shower every day. I’m doing all this. And we even have a little sketch in the book. If your loved one, you suspect dementia, go into the doctor with them and sit behind them.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yes. Wow. Really?
SPEAKER 07 :
And when the doctor says, well, are you having a good day? And you just go, no, they’re not. And they’re going to go, oh, yeah, we’re doing this and we’re doing this. And you’re going to go, uh-uh. You’re just back to not in your head and disagreeing.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, when you’re like Michael. Wow. And when you’re like Michael and you’re Bobby flaying it in the kitchen and your wife says all you do is like microwave dinners.
SPEAKER 07 :
But why are they doing that?
SPEAKER 03 :
Because –
SPEAKER 07 :
They don’t want to get sent to the nursing home. Oh, wow. This is like the probation officer or something. They’re going to show time for the cops or the doctor. Yeah, I’m all good. Please don’t send me to hospital.
SPEAKER 09 :
And the reason being is because a lot of these memory places… Are like a prison person because they’re on lockdown. They’re not able to freely roam.
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, my co-author, Patrice, her boss’s wife was my mother’s best friend. Okay, we’re from Wyoming. It’s a big, small town. And she had dementia several years ago. And she would just go out and pick weeds. Just go out and pick weeds for hours. And this woman was so artistic and creative and she could do all this stuff. And they finally had to put her in a lockdown unit, which was basically a fence that you could walk around in circles. And she’d just try and figure out how to get out. In fact, memory care units are designed in a circle. Oh, my God. So that the patients don’t come to a door to try and get out.
SPEAKER 03 :
Wow. I know this is dark, people. I’m sorry. But how do you make somebody crazy? You tell them to go into a round room and pee in a corner.
SPEAKER 1 :
Ha!
SPEAKER 07 :
This is called the guy’s perspective, isn’t it?
SPEAKER 11 :
Hey, just out of curiosity, did you ever deal with guilt?
SPEAKER 07 :
All the time. All the time. Like how? You just swallow it. It’s just there.
SPEAKER 11 :
It’s like the air. No, I’m saying like what kind of guilt was there? Like guilt like it’s your fault this happened to her kind of situation.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, there’s so many things to feel guilty about. You’re not guilty of anything. If you’re guilty of anything, it’s caring too much. Wow. But the guilt you feel is this pit in the bottom of your stomach. Did I do enough? Is there something else I could have? Come on, we’re a guy. There’s one more thing I could… If I could, you know… I’m reminded of the movie War Games, and you might want to blink this out because the general in the movie War Games, my favorite line, I’d piss on a spark plug if I thought it’d do any good. And there were days that I said that. I would do that if it’d do any good.
SPEAKER 09 :
You know, we’re running low on time, but what made you write this book?
SPEAKER 07 :
Just like I said in the beginning, Andre, when I’d go to the doctor, they’d come back and say, okay, come back and see us in six months. You’ve got dementia. What do I do? I need a map, a handbook, and this is a handbook for caregivers. I just needed something to point me See around the corner sometime. That’s one of the reviewers said it allows you to see around the corner. What’s coming next? What’s the next freight train?
SPEAKER 09 :
So this book is one of those go tos for people that have spouses, family that actually have dementia. These are the resources that you’ve pulled together that probably aren’t out there, I suppose, as especially as a caregiver. I’ve never really heard of anything for caregivers. No, for sure. You know, this is great.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, there’s a whole list of other resources in the back because we didn’t do this all on our own. Sure. But we wanted to have something. We wanted to make something, a quick read of what this is.
SPEAKER 10 :
Now I’m kind of wondering, you know how when people call into the show, we ask them, as guys, what’s the most important thing in life? And we’re all saying money. And that one person will chime in and say quality of life. After listening to you, I guess I didn’t really realize how big quality of life is until you deal with something or you got to be a caregiver and have to take care of somebody 24-7.
SPEAKER 07 :
But Brock, it goes back to you love that person and you do anything for them.
SPEAKER 10 :
God, that’s absolutely amazing.
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t think there could have been a better turn of events or legacy that came out of your wife having dementia than you writing this book.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, I wish she was still around with me because she was a wonderful person and I’d love to be doing stuff with her. That’s not what God intended. And if this is her legacy, great. I hope she’s happy. It’s going to help people.
SPEAKER 09 :
I was going to ask you one more thing. I do like this book. Like you said, our very short reads, you know, you’ve addressed pretty much every question, you know, that I can conceive about, you know, dementia. With that said, do you have a website or anything else that people can… All we have is the book, Andre.
SPEAKER 07 :
We’re not a big publishing house. We’re just two people… who dealt with this and we wanted to give back to the community and this is our way of doing it. So if somebody wants to know more, get a hold of the publisher, I guess.
SPEAKER 10 :
And this is what I think the guy’s perspective is about. I mean, if we were not on this radio, we would have never met you, and our listeners would never be hearing. Well, I don’t think they’d hear anything in depth like this. I mean, this is good stuff. We want to thank you for coming to our show, coming to Colorado.
SPEAKER 03 :
You drove all the way down from Wyoming. Hey, what’s up, Wyoming? What?
SPEAKER 09 :
Rob, what’s up? And you want to tell everybody the name of the book? Yes, please. And where they can get it again one more time.
SPEAKER 07 :
It’s the ABCs for Dementia Caregivers. It’s a handbook for caregivers by Patrice Gapin and Michael Hemd. And it is available on Amazon.com or through our publisher, Archway. And if you’ve got any questions… Look at the book.
SPEAKER 11 :
So how long were you guys married? 19 years.
SPEAKER 10 :
Can I ask you a question?
SPEAKER 07 :
Sure.
SPEAKER 10 :
Can I stop you? What show prompted you to listen to us? What was the first show you ever heard from us guys?
SPEAKER 07 :
It was early in January. I was driving into town. It was 2 o’clock in the afternoon, and I heard you guys. I said… These guys get it. These guys are… You guys are appointment listening for me. Wow. And I love the fact that it’s a testosterone-fueled show.
SPEAKER 06 :
I’m just saying, baby. It is.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, but there are a lot of… A lot of shows, and I’m a regular listener to this station. Oh, thank you. So please accept that thanks. It’s just, this show is unique because it’s the guy’s perspective. We as men… always want to be one step bigger than the problem we want to go one we want to be the problem solvers we want to be superman and i heard that among you guys and i thank you for being my superman thank you for coming on the show man that’s impressive man yeah because sometimes we wonder as guys are we really reaching our community are we really doing the things we need to and
SPEAKER 10 :
People, you can always call in every week at 303-477-5600.
SPEAKER 09 :
Or catch us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, any of your popular podcasts. You can download us and subscribe.
SPEAKER 10 :
Y’all have a good afternoon. Thank you so much. And thank you for coming to the show. Thanks, Mike. Thank you, gentlemen.
SPEAKER 05 :
I don’t expect you to understand. I just hope I can explain what it’s like to be here.
SPEAKER 01 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker and do not necessarily reflect those of Crawford Broadcasting, the station, management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
