Join Kim Munson as she dives into an inspiring dialogue with author Doyle Glass, exploring the courageous tales of the Vietnam War. Doyle shares insights from his book, Swift Sword, which chronicles the heroic actions of the Marines of Mike 3-5 during the grueling battles of September 1967. This episode not only captures the essence of military valor but also reflects on the hardships faced by young soldiers in an unforgiving war.
SPEAKER 03 :
World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, Afghanistan, and her other wars and conflicts. America’s fighting men and women strapped on their boots and picked up their guns to fight tyranny and stand for liberty. We must never forget them. Welcome to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. These stories will touch your heart, inspire you, and give you courage. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Here’s Kim Munson.
SPEAKER 05 :
And welcome to America’s Veterans Stories with Kim Munson. Please check out our website. That is AmericasVeteransStories.com. And the show comes to you because of a trip that I took in 2016 with a group that accompanied four D-Day veterans back to Normandy, France for the 72nd anniversary of the D-Day landings. And I returned stateside realizing that we need to tell these stories. We need to broadcast them and record them and archive them. Hence, America’s Veterans Stories. And I’m so pleased to have on the line with me Doyle Glass. He is an author and he has a new book out that we want to tell you about. Doyle Glass, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 09 :
Thank you, Kim. It’s an honor to be here.
SPEAKER 05 :
So, Doyle, tell us a little bit about you.
SPEAKER 09 :
Let’s see. I was born in Midland, Texas. I went to school in Texas. I’m back in Dallas now. I went to law school. I was a prosecutor for about a decade. Always growing up, had a real passion for history, for American history, our stories. Grew up hearing about World War II, the greatest generation. And The point in time in my life, I segue changed careers from being a prosecuting attorney. I was a sculptor for about a decade, and I created two monuments that honored our veterans, one in Kentucky and one in Texas. And in that process, I… Learned these stories of these veterans just, you know, and came away like you did from your trip in 2016. We need to tell our veterans stories. So I then embarked about 2010. five or so to archive and tell the story of our Vietnam veterans, because I thought that that was truly lacking a real piece in our history that was not covered properly. And I grew up, I was too young for the Vietnam war, but I grew up hearing about it, seeing it on TV, seeing, uh, you know, the men, uh, fighting. And then of course, uh, how they were not treated well when they came home. So I felt it was my job to tell the story. And that’s where these two books that I’ve written have came from, from those veterans telling me about two specific battles in Vietnam. The first book, Alliance of Medina, covers one. And then the book that we’re talking about today, Swift Sword, covers another.
SPEAKER 05 :
And so, again, that first book is Lines of Medina, The True Story of the Marines of Charlie 1-1 in Vietnam. And that was 11-12, October 1967. 1967 was a big year for the Vietnam War, Doyle.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yes, it was. As we all know, the North Vietnamese Army launched the Tet Offensive in early 1968. And so a lot of these actions that occurred in late 1967 when fighting the North Vietnamese Army were in response to the lead up to the Tet Offensive in early 68.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and what I’ve learned regarding the Tet Offensive, so because of my work with veterans, I’ve gotten to know the Center for American Values, which is located in Pueblo, Colorado, on the Riverwalk. And Pueblo, Colorado, Doyle Glass, is unique in it had four Medal of Honor recipients that grew up in Pueblo. One was World War II to Korea, and one was Vietnam, who is Drew Dix. who is one of the co-founders of the Center for American Values. And they focus on a couple of things. They have portraits of valor, honoring our Medal of Honor recipients, and then also they have put together these great educational programs to instill in us and our children these values of honor, integrity, and patriotism. And so the Center’s nonpolitical, it’s nonpartisan, but there are these foundational American values. In learning that, I’ve gotten to know Drew Dix. He was in a 56-hour battle during the Tet Offensive. I’ve learned a lot about the Tet Offensive. I didn’t quite understand it, but Tet was a very important holiday in Vietnam. My understanding was that was that the North Vietnamese said, okay, we’re going to observe the holiday implying a ceasefire. Well, they were just kidding. But as you said, that was in 1968. And, of course, these books are 1967. But I like to input this history that I’m learning because it’s been a real process for me, and I didn’t understand that until I started to do our America’s Veterans Story show.
SPEAKER 09 :
And, you know, that’s… Great that you’re learning that, and to your point, we don’t know. We know a lot more about World War II, as we should, the battles that occurred, but we don’t know about these battles in Vietnam, what happened, what our men and women were facing, and Operation Swift, Swift’s sword, The first day, which I covered one day of that operation, one day in combat, was a response to preparations that the NVA were making in the Khe Sanh Valley region of South Vietnam to push or prepare the area for the Tet Offensive. But for Operation Swift and what our Marines did with regard to Tet, it was ineffective in the Quezon region because of this operation. So a tactical military success by the United States, that’s really… completely unknown. So I really applaud you for learning and trying to fit these pieces together because we all need to know.
SPEAKER 05 :
We really do need to know. So tell us about these Marines. It looks like a fascinating book. And so where should we start regarding Swift Sword?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, what I wanted to do, and my goal with both books, was to capture the action combat that our men on the ground, our boys faced, the privates, the non-coms. What did that look like? In Vietnam, we had a lot of relatively small, vicious actions where we’ve learned about World War II, the Battle of the Bulge, Guadalcanal, larger operations. In Vietnam, What we had was more equally vicious, if not more, I mean, just as bad, but on a smaller scale. So what we had with Operation Swift, we had elections in South Vietnam on September the 3rd, 1967. They were voting for presidents in the South. And as we know, the South was a republic, you know, albeit a corrupt government. in a number of ways but still they held these elections to determine their president so marines were out in the caisson region to ensure that the electorate the people were able to vote what happened on in the early morning hours of september the 4th is that a company of marines was had been out the day prior providing that security, they were attacked by overwhelming forces of North Vietnamese that early morning. And that was a different company. The company that I’m writing about, wrote about Mike 3-5, which is approximately 164 Marines, was back at their base in the Khe Sanh region, which is a huge region. basically to provide security or act as a quick reaction force. Should other units get into trouble? And that’s what happened. The other unit got into trouble. The call came for my three, five early mornings, September 4th, get your gear, get on the choppers. We’ve got to go help out some Marines in trouble. And that’s where it started.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay. And I think this is a good point as we’re coming into talking about the book. You’re doing an actual national promotion on this in December. I think it’s a wonderful gift. And I think it’s also these books are the kinds of books that I love to have books for people to have in their freedom library and their historical library at their home. So just tell us a little bit about the rollout of this book.
SPEAKER 09 :
This book, this is the second edition of Swift Story. The first edition came out in 2017. I realized about a decade later, I had a lot going on personally, came back to the book, realized that it wasn’t finished. So I went back to all of the interviews that I made with these veterans, put their words in the book. so that they’re telling their story, the direct quotes in italics, and it transformed the book. So it made it a brand new book. December 16th through the 21st. is a time for us to honor our vietnam veterans uh you know back in the 90s in the early 2000s you remember we were honoring our greatest generation a number of movies books to honor our world war ii heroes here we have in many cases the sons of the greatest generation going out and fighting for their country just as their fathers did in the vietnam war so we’re trying to really promote this book in that time frame, that one week, December 16th through the 21st, to highlight our Vietnam veterans, to buy the book for our veterans, learn what they went through, and of utmost importance, to thank our Vietnam veterans. Many of them are our grandfathers, uncles, relatives. Specifically, thank them for what they did now, you know, several decades ago. And that’s what we’re trying to do. And to know what they went through to read this book, because it’s authentic.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and they never were really welcomed home. They were treated terribly. And it is time. And I know that we’re changing that to after all these years to say welcome home. And when I’ve seen that occur sometimes… These veterans, these Vietnam veterans have tears in their eyes because it finally, I think, is bringing some healing after the things that they went through. But it’s important that we understand that. And so where can people get the book? What’s the best way to do that?
SPEAKER 09 :
Go to Amazon.com, Split Sword. Put in my name, Doyle Glass, the book Split Sword. You can purchase it there. You can purchase it on Barnes & Noble. You can also purchase it at a discount directly through my website, DoyleGlass.com. The print version, I believe, is at $11.99. So you can save some money by going directly to my website to find it. So those are the three options. The main area is to go get it. It’s available both in print and e-book. Also, it’s available in audio.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, awesome. Okay. And again, I’m talking with Joel Glass. He is the author of Swift Sword, the true story of the Marines of Mike 3-5 in Vietnam for September 1967. And the Center for American Values is located in Pueblo on the beautiful Riverwalk. And it was founded for several reasons. One, to honor our Medal of Honor recipients. And they do that through… Over 160 portraits of valor of Medal of Honor recipients. But additionally, they are teaching these foundational principles of honor, integrity, and patriotism through many of their educational programs and also their On Values presentations. So for more information about the center, go to AmericanValuesCenter.org. That’s AmericanValuesCenter.org. And so we’re going to continue this discussion with Doyle Glass and his book, Swift Sword. We’ll be right back.
SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
All Kim’s sponsors are in inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Monson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmonson.com. That’s Kim Monson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you so much for listening to America’s Veterans Stories. We are rebroadcasting some of the shows that we have recorded in the past because we have these amazing guests and these amazing stories, and we need to hear them. And so we thought that it would be a great idea to rebroadcast some of these so that you can hear our history and know our history because it is so important. So again, this is something that was recorded earlier, and thank you for listening.
SPEAKER 04 :
Ha, ha, ha.
SPEAKER 05 :
And welcome back to America’s Veterans Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteransStories.com. And I’m talking with author Doyle Glass regarding his book, Swift Sword, which is in its second printing. And it is about the true story of the Marines of Mike 3-5 in Vietnam for September 1967. Doyle, one of the things that I’ve learned in this journey with America’s Veterans Stories is And getting to know a number of combat veterans is… I can’t understand combat. There is no way that anybody that’s not gone through it can understand it. There is a special understanding between combat veterans. And I got to know a lot of our combat veterans at a group of Marines that meets up for lunch once a month up in North Denver. Cooper’s Troopers. A shout out to Cooper’s Troopers. But it was a real realization that… I as much as I would try, there’s no way I could ever understand what they’ve gone through.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s exactly true. And, you know, I’ve been someone attempting to record their story, but I certainly can never understand completely everything. What I’ve seen is and what I experienced hearing from the veterans is that the bond of combat veterans is stronger in many cases than blood, than your own brothers. That bond is one of fighting and protecting veterans. The guy next to you in the foxhole is one that we’ll never understand. I had the privilege in 2009 to go back to Vietnam with veterans of Operation Swift, and we actually In the book, it’s called The Knoll, because that’s what it was. It was a small knoll in the Quezon Valley. And it was a surreal experience for me to go through the rice paddies, to walk among the villagers, to follow these veterans to the place where they fought so long ago, and just to watch them. as comrades in arms on that battlefield was a very special experience for me as an observer. And once again, we can’t understand it. The most that we can do is read about what they do for us. I mean, they’re fighting for us, for our country.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and I totally understand that because the same thing happened to me when I was in Normandy. So question, SWIFT was an operation. Is that right? So tell us a little bit about what that means exactly.
SPEAKER 09 :
Absolutely. So as I mentioned earlier, SWIFT. Mike 3-5, 164 Marines, was back at their base as a quick reaction force should another unit were in trouble. The Quezon Valley is a huge region, and there really were not enough Marines to cover it. So early morning, September 4, 1967, Mike 3-5 was called out to help another company, Delta 1-5, And that was the beginning of Operation Swift. So it was not a planned operation. The operation, which was approximately 10 days, I’d have to get the exact number on that. occurred as a result of this quick reaction strike by Mike 35. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay. Yes, I got it. So they’ve gone out, 164 Marines. And what does the going out look like? You mentioned they get on the choppers. What does that look like?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, it’s very chaotic. In fact, I’ve had reviewers read the book. He said, the book is so chaotic. I said, yes, that’s because the battle was, the combat was from the very beginning. So the Marines were basically in their tents. Their officers and the sergeants come in and said, get your gear, got to get ready to go. They go out to wait for the choppers to come in. And I think these were CH-34s. I’ll have to go back and take a look specifically. So the choppers come in, and these specific choppers had been grounded for a tail rotor problem because they were too dangerous to fly in. But there was no time, and I can go into other issues. The M16 rifle that on this operation kept jamming, that was another issue our men had to deal with. So these, I think they were CH-34s, were… grounded or had been grounded for tail rotor issues, you know, a crash problem, but they were called in. Uh, sand is kicking up everywhere. The Marines had been, uh, told numerous times to keep their m16s clean because the weapon kept jamming in combat meaning it’s a semi-automatic rifle it’s supposed to shoot rounds but it would jam up they would have to grab a cleaning rod shove it down the barrel and this is all in combat you can imagine it’s like fighting a war with a musket in the American Revolution. So the Marines are wrapping their M-16s with towels. They’re covering. And that was not even the problem. Keeping the weapon clean did not cause the jamming issue. It was a problem, a defect in the weapon itself. So there, dust is flying up. It’s very chaotic. And they’re being ferried out to a place in the caisson valley when mike 35 was brought out they were initially put down in the wrong spot because the landing zones were hot so when mike 35 the marines were set down they didn’t know where they were and they were going to find you know this other company to provide give them some reinforcement so quick thinking lieutenant jd murray was the commander of the company he was able to fire a white phosphorus round which was able to mark their position and he was able to find out where they went so they they set off toward the delta 15 so to answer your question and i’m just trying to illustrate there’s a very chaotic scene You have to move fast, get on the choppers. They’ve got defective weapons that they’re trying to keep sand out of, all in an effort to go provide reinforcement for these other Marines that were under a devastating attack by the North Vietnamese, heavily outnumbered. I mean, in some cases, we’re thinking four to five to one. So chaos is the key word.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay. So, Doyle, how many men could they get on a chopper? Did they drop off all 164 at the wrong place? What did that look like?
SPEAKER 09 :
They did. The exact number of men on the chopper, I would have to go back and take a look. There were maybe several waves were brought in, but they were able to get the Marine down. And Lieutenant Murray is on communicating by radio. Radio was the main way to communicate with the battalion headquarters. They were going to join up with another company, K35, to join together to go help out the company that was in trouble. Hopefully this isn’t too confusing. But they were told that you’re in the wrong spot. So Lieutenant Murray, who was The company was very fortunate to have him because he, as the commander, was one of the few officers, in fact, the only main officer who had combat experience. The three platoon commanders did not have any combat experience. He was able to ascertain quickly, despite what he was being told on the radio, that he was in the wrong place. So through quick thinking, as I mentioned earlier, he was able to fire around from a mortar, a white phosphorus, which provides a white smoke so that they can mark their position. And from that was able to find out where they were and where they needed to go. So they basically started a quick march in column to try to go aid the Marines in trouble.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, so when you’re saying this, and again, I’m such a civilian on this, so the white phosphorus, that marks the position so the battalion commanders, they know where they are and then they can start to give him by radio directions on where they need to go. Am I getting that right?
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s basically correct, yes.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay. Okay. So now you’ve got – the other thing we need to realize is that these Marines are young and very young. And I think that’s important that we let people know. So do you know the average age of the guys? Yes.
SPEAKER 09 :
18, 19, young, the guys on the ground, the veterans. There’s one veteran that I write about, Larry Peters, a sergeant, was a, I don’t think he had turned 21 yet, but he was considered, he was a non-commissioned officer, a veteran who was a leader, but considered one of the main, you know, guys. And we’re talking a 21-year-old. In Vietnam, we had a number of things against veterans. working against our men. First, I mentioned the M16 in this particular battle jammed and malfunctioned, so they had a defective weapon. There was also, in Vietnam, the individual replacement system. In World War II, when a unit, a company, was in combat, that company stayed together throughout training, the action, and then when they were brought back out of the front line, they stayed together as a unit so that they were a cohesive team. In Vietnam… there was a very poor system of individual replacements so a new guy would go in to replace assault a person that had been there who had been killed or injured and this new guy is young 18 no no training and no friends he he comes in he’s isolated because he doesn’t know anything the veterans don’t want him to make a mistake and get them killed. So it’s a very lonely, scary existence that provided that worked against unit cohesion and teamwork. The third issue was, I mentioned the officers, the platoon commanders were fresh lieutenants out of the basic school from the States, no combat experience. Lieutenant Murray barely knew his three lieutenants that were under him. He was a lieutenant himself. Normally a captain would command a company, but he was a lieutenant with combat experience, so they gave him the job. And he was not able to know these men, to train with them. So it was a very disjointed way to try to fight a very experienced, determined, and strong enemy in the North Vietnamese. But in this case, they did it. They made it work.
SPEAKER 05 :
Boy, this is really interesting. I’m talking with Doyle Glass. He is the author of Swift Sword, the true story of the Marines of Mike 3-5 in Vietnam for September 1967. As we’re talking about this, it makes me just so excited. The official Marine Memorial is located right here in Colorado in Golden at 6th and Colfax. It was dedicated in 1977, and it is time for a facelift. And the USMC Memorial Foundation is working diligently to raise the funds to make that happen. And a great way that you can honor our military, to say thank you to those people who have put their lives on the line or have given their lives for our freedom, is to support the USMC Memorial Foundation. And you can do that by going to usmcmemorialfoundation.org.
SPEAKER 06 :
In these tumultuous times, it is necessary that we each have a freedom library to know and understand our history. Bury Him! A Memoir of the Vietnam War by Captain Doug Chamberlain is a must for your personal library. In this honest and gripping memoir, Captain Chamberlain recounts the chilling events that took place during his command of a company of young Marines at the height of the Vietnam War. Chamberlain painfully recalls the unspeakable order he and his Marines were forced to obey and the cover-up which followed. Purchase the book at marinedougchamberlain.com. That’s marinedougchamberlain.com so that you gain perspective on this time in our history.
SPEAKER 02 :
All Kim’s sponsors are in inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Monson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmonson.com. That’s Kim Monson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you so much for listening to America’s Veterans Stories. We are rebroadcasting some of the shows that we have recorded in the past because we have these amazing guests and these amazing stories and we need to hear them. And so we thought that it would be a great idea to rebroadcast some of these so that you can hear our history and know our history because it is so important. So again, this is something that was recorded earlier. And thank you for listening.
SPEAKER 03 :
God bless.
SPEAKER 05 :
And welcome back to America’s Veterans Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteransStories.com. And a sponsor that I greatly appreciate for America’s Veterans Stories is Hooters Restaurants. They have locations in Loveland, Westminster, and in Aurora on Parker Road. and great specials Monday through Friday for lunch and for happy hour. Great place to get together with your friends to watch the sporting events and just have some great food. In particular, their fish and chips and their nachos are delicious. I hear that their fish tacos are quite good as well. So again, thank you to Hooters Restaurants for their sponsorship of the show. Talking with Doyle Glass, he is the author of Swift Sword, the true story of the Marines of Mike 3-5 in Vietnam for September 1967. Doyle, we have these 164 Marines. They’re young. They’re 18, 19 primarily. And you said one of their challenges was they had a defective weapon. I think it is irresponsible that we would give our Marines a defective weapon and then send them into battle. I’m just incredulous about that, Doyle Glass.
SPEAKER 09 :
And it, Kim, yes, it was a tragedy. What happened was the M16 was a new rifle issued to all of our fighting men in Vietnam. In some cases, the M16 that was issued worked fine. It did not have an issue. In this case, these Marines were issued an experimental version of the M16 that had a faulty… It was not chromed properly in the barrel. In addition, improper ammunition was issued. Clearly, there was no quality control. And what happened was, in the middle of combat, the weapon would jam. A round would get stuck. Another round would come in behind it and would call what’s known as a double feed, which jam the weapon you couldn’t fire so we’ve got these young men fighting in a very hot combat zone the weapon stops working they have to find their cleaning rod they have to keep their cleaning rod with them take the cleaning rod jam it down the barrel to eject the cartridges that were jammed take it back out and start firing again have it jam again they would hand it back and forth to each other almost like Think of the American Revolution or the Alamo, where you’ve got a Kentucky long rifle that shoots one bullet, and you jam it in and do the whole process. Civil War, we’re supposed to have an automatic weapon here. And so these Marines were handing them back. In one case in the book, the Marines are— clearing their weapon, fighting the North Vietnamese, and they leave the cleaning rod out. They’re falling back to keep the perimeter. The cleaning rod is 100 yards out, and one of the Marines has to go out to get it to come back. So it was a travesty. The men were blamed. for not keeping their weapons clean. And I mentioned when the choppers came in, they would wrap towels around the intake, you know, plastic over the barrel. That wasn’t the problem at all. Like I said, it was a defective weapon from the manufacturer, but it was not dealt with expeditiously. The men were blamed. Lieutenant Murray gives a great comment in the book of how hot he was Being told that, and the men were told to clean their weapons three times a day, it didn’t make a difference. So it did cost lives. It was a real issue on Operation Swift. But the men overcame that as they did a number of other things that were against them to prevail.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and that is one of the things that I learned on my trip to Normandy, is the innovation of the American soldier, marine, sailor. And that really is from the beginning of our country, the Revolutionary War. The creativity and the not waiting always for orders in those hot situations to take action. And our guys, again, when I was in Normandy, they said that that was one of the differences between the Americans and, for example, the Brits. And I thought that really has stuck with me. So let’s continue on. So these guys are going out to try to help the Delta unit that is being, I guess, pinned down. So what happens then, Doyle Glass?
SPEAKER 09 :
So… As I mentioned, the Khe Sanh Valley is a very large region. It’s agricultural, a lot of rice paddies. The area where the Marines are is relatively open. There are patchy, there’s a river and there are patchy areas of forest. What they didn’t realize was that thousands of North Vietnamese in preparation for tech were coming into the caisson Valley to reacquire it, to, to basically wipe out all the Marines there. Delta one five was the first to be attacked that early, early morning hours. Mike 35 and another company, Kilo 35, they’re not together. So Mike 35 is the 164 men are marching first in column and then in a wedge formation, which is basically a pyramid with one platoon in the front and other platoons on the left and right side. And they’re heading toward Delta 1-5s But as they come over a knoll and overlook a rice paddy, they trigger an ambush early, meaning the North Vietnamese are waiting for them. And four to five, so four to five odds, four to one, the North Vietnamese are baiting these small units of Marines to come out to them so that they can overrun them and kill everyone. And that was the plan for the North Vietnamese. And it almost worked.
SPEAKER 05 :
So what happened?
SPEAKER 09 :
The rescuer became, what’s the word I’m looking for? The one in trouble. Mike 35 suddenly going out to help the other Marines. They’re the ones now in serious trouble. So they come to a knoll, which was the principal battlefield. Jack Swan, who’s a young Marine, the point man. The point man for any combat unit is one of the most dangerous roles because he’s the first person there. So he’s out front. He comes down off the knoll into the rice paddy. He’s the one looking for any sign of danger. And he sees what he thinks is a bush move. A bush. And he’s looking out. We’re not talking about midday. It’s sunny. There’s nothing going on. There’s not a water buffalo. There’s not a farmer. It’s eerily quiet. Swan goes out and sees what he thinks, like I said, is a bush move. He communicates back with his squad leader. Just saw a bush move. That person said, if it moves again, shoot it. The Bush moved. He had a grenade launcher, shot it, and then all hell broke loose. What happened was that the Vietnamese were waiting for the entire company to come into that rice paddy so that they could attack and annihilate them quickly. Thuan, by his keen eyes, was able to See what was about to happen. The ambush was triggered early. The Marines had the benefit of that knoll around which to circle the wagons, basically, form a perimeter and try to survive. So that’s how this all began.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, so they are then on the knoll. So my understanding being having the higher ground is good. So that sets this up at least a good thing that happened. Am I getting that right?
SPEAKER 09 :
It is good, but the knoll wasn’t very high. It was a small hill, and there was no cover. There was just very, I mean, knee-high bushes, basically. So these guys are basically having, yes, they have high ground. It’s better than being in the rice paddy. And with all of the North Vietnamese, and the North Vietnamese were… incredibly good soldiers. They were so well camouflaged that it looked like bushes running. Lieutenant Murray talks about how he’d see one bush get up and come down and another would fire and another would come. So yes, they do have the higher ground on the knoll, but they’re still in dire trouble. They could easily have been overrun, but for the leadership that they had and the You mentioned it earlier, the individual ability to think, even with what I’ve mentioned against them, the inability to train together, the individual replacement system, they were able to react and form a perimeter and survive. And it took a lot of quick thinking, very chaotic situation, but they did it.
SPEAKER 05 :
Wow. What about Jack Swan? Did he survive?
SPEAKER 09 :
He did survive. Now, he passed away several years ago. A lot of the veterans that I interviewed have passed away, and many from cancer, and more than likely as a result of exposure to Agent Orange, which was used as a defoliant, and these guys just walked through it every day. So he, Swan, did survive. The men next to him didn’t. One, Howard Haney, was also shot. He did survive. But Haney and Swan were trapped in that rice paddy for basically a day, almost a day into the night before they could be rescued by the Marines.
SPEAKER 05 :
Wow. Okay, so you’ve said that they’ve created the perimeter, and you said this is midday. Well, the other thing I think that we need to mention, let’s do this before we go to break, is the book is interviews with many of these guys from Mike 3-5, right? Yes.
SPEAKER 09 :
Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s what makes the book so unique is that in the second edition, that’s what makes it new and unique is that it’s their words telling what they went through, which you can’t get if you’re not there. If you’re a person not able to experience it, hearing from them directly is incredible.
SPEAKER 05 :
So their words, their story in this book, Swift Sword, the true story of the Marines of Mike 3-5 in Vietnam for September 1967. You can get the book at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and also your website. Again, what is that website, Doyle?
SPEAKER 09 :
Doyleglass.com, D-O-Y-L-E-G-L-A-S-S.com. And you can purchase it from the website at a discount.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, so highly recommend that you do that. The show comes to you because of all the great sponsors that I get to work with.
SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you so much for listening to America’s Veterans Stories. We are rebroadcasting some of the shows that we have recorded in the past because we have these amazing guests and these amazing stories, and we need to hear them. And so we thought that it would be a great idea to rebroadcast some of these so that you can hear our history and know our history because it is so important. So again, this is something that was recorded earlier, and thank you for listening. And welcome back to America’s Veterans Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our Web site. That is America’s Veterans Stories dot com. And I’m talking with Doyle Glass regarding his second book, Swift Sword, the true story of the Marines of Mike three five in Vietnam. for September 1967. And you can purchase the book at Amazon or Barnes & Noble. But if you go to Doyle’s website, that is Doyle Glass, D-O-Y-L-E-G-L-A-S-S.com, you can purchase the book at a discount. And Doyle, the book is certainly paper, but Kindle and also audio, right? Right.
SPEAKER 09 :
That is correct. And, Kim, one thing I did forget to mention, if you do purchase it off the website, also you will be able to get a signed book plate, which is basically a sticker that goes inside the book. I can leave a personal message and sign it. So that’s an extra benefit. perk or giveaway by going directly to the website. And I neglected to mention that.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay. And then also you had mentioned that there’s going to be a real focus on this book. And that is, let’s see, December 16th through the 21st, right?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yes. We’re using that week to get the word out as best we can to honor specifically our Vietnam veterans to buy this book for the Vietnam veteran in your family, a friend, or just to know what these men went through. And if you know a Vietnam veteran, if you see one, to thank them for their service to our country because, as you pointed out earlier, they weren’t thanked when they came home. They were, in many cases, treated very, very poorly. So it’s time now. to honor them specifically for what they did for our country, just as their fathers did in World War II.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and Doyle, I do. I say thank you. And for many years I said thank you for your service. And then one veteran looked at me and he said, thank you. But he said, you know what, you might say thank you for my freedom. And so that’s what I say now is thank you for my freedom. And this is something that has been passed on to us because of blood and treasure. And there was a lot of blood and treasure on that knoll on September 4th. for 1967. So tell us a little bit more about the battle.
SPEAKER 09 :
So as I mentioned earlier, the Marines were ambushed. The ambush was triggered early. If they had traveled out into the large rice paddy, likelihood they would have been completely overrun and every man killed by the North Vietnamese, which counted in the thousands, 4,000 plus Marines. armed, very well-trained, disciplined North Vietnamese soldiers. The ambush was triggered early. The men were able to form a perimeter, which is a circle around the knoll, which is some high ground, but with very little cover. The North Vietnamese were ready for them. They even had tunnels on that knoll so that— The enemy soldiers were basically popping up and coming out inside the Marine perimeter. So they were very well prepared. This was a bait to bring piecemeal units of Marines in to wipe them out. Basically, we now have circle the wagon. The enemy is charging. The Marines are trying to fight back with the defective M16 that keeps jamming. That’s obviously a huge issue. If the North Vietnamese breach the perimeter, if they break into that circle and come on the inside, it’s over. And every Marine’s dead. And that almost happened. But for the quick thinking and the leadership of Lieutenant Murray, the company commander, and the three platoon commanders down to the non-commissioned officers, one non-commissioned officer was a veteran named Larry Peters, who I believe was all of 21 years old. He was ordered to take two squads, which is just a handful of Marines, to envelop a tree line near the knoll to try to push back against the onslaught of North Vietnamese. As he’s leading these men out, another wave of camouflaged North Vietnamese soldiers emerges from that tree line and charges his unit. Once again, if they get overrun, it’s over. And if they get killed and the perimeter is breached, it’s over for every man there. Peters, seeing this happen, immediately organizes a retreat back up the knoll under fire, which is one of the most difficult maneuvers in combat that can be performed. Obviously, fear is a factor. The concern about dropping your weapons and running back up the knoll in sheer terror as you see thousands of North Vietnamese coming at you, firing mortars, etc. That didn’t happen. Lieutenant Peters, I’m sorry, Sergeant Peters saw that, organized that retreat back up the hill, kept it as I said, organized so that they could keep the perimeter intact and fight back. And that’s just one of many, many examples of heroism, coolness under combat that was exhibited over and over on September 4th on that knoll.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, Doyle, during the break, we were talking about this battle and Medal of Honor recipients. Tell us a little bit about that, because there were two. Is that right?
SPEAKER 09 :
That is correct. So Sergeant Peters was one of those Medal of Honor recipients, and he ended up fighting to the last. He was basically standing up. While a lot of the other men were taking cover, but he was providing leadership exposed to fire. He had a machine gun. And one of the reasons he was standing up was to. mark the position to show the other men where the enemy was, because you can’t do that unless you’re standing up. So he’s firing, saying, there they are, there they are. He ultimately succumbed to his wounds. The other Medal of Honor recipient was Father Vincent Capodanno, who was a roughly 40-year-old Navy chaplain for the Marines who was not even supposed to be there. During the chaos of the morning, When the company was called out, Father Capadano stowed away on a chopper because he wanted to be with his Marines and the Navy Corpsmen. The Navy Corpsmen were the men, the medics, basically, that provided triage on the battlefield. So Father Capadano stowed away. There’s a great scene where prior to this, he gives St. Christopher medals to the Marines who want them, regardless of being Catholic or Protestant. So he goes out there. He’s not supposed to be there. He’s supposed to be back at headquarters. He sees what’s happening. There’s an ambush. He is also completely oblivious to fire and goes to men who need immediate medical aid to help the medics, I’m sorry, the Navy corpsmen, to help those who have been shot, and he’s providing that aid to them, completely exposed to fire. He’s also performing last rites for a lot of the young men and boys that were dying, holding their hands. We’re talking terrified 18-year-olds. Father Capodanno is there to help them. While he was doing this, he also, because he was completely exposed, he was also shot and killed. And those are just two of the examples as i said before of just incredible heroism and both of these men exhibited what i would say the whole company exhibited which is they’re fighting for their comrade they’re fighting for their the friend next to them oblivious to self-preservation it’s very kind of awe-inspiring to even think about
SPEAKER 05 :
So your book, Swift Sword, is interviews with these Marines. How many stories are there in the book?
SPEAKER 09 :
I interviewed close to 50, maybe about 50 of the Marines or of the family members of those who didn’t come back. I interviewed the two sisters of Larry Peters, for example. So it’s interesting. I guess the best way to say is that the interviews helped me build this story to try to tell it in the best way possible. because you’ve got each marine has his own battle that’s his own world that’s just the few feet in front of them and it’s oblivious to what might be going on in the perimeter behind them my goal through all these interviews was to give a picture a three-dimensional chaotic picture of what that one day on that knoll looked like from as many perspectives as i could find and i want to thank those veterans for trusting me with their story so that this piece of history would be out there.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, my gosh, Joel Glass. Thank you for doing this, first of all. And we only have maybe about three minutes left. But how did they get off that knoll?
SPEAKER 09 :
Leadership, maintaining the perimeter, actions like Larry Peters, self-sacrifice, and air power. One of the another another unsung heroes is the two pilots that fly a small Cessna Piper Cub, who was a spotter around the knoll for the jets that would come in with high explosive to try to beat back the North Vietnamese. So the Piper Cub airplane was called a bird dog. And those men were incredible heroes because they’re going on through all of this battle flying above the knoll to radio where to drop the bombs. So air power was able to come in. That provided a lot of the. I guess, breathing room to keep the men from being overrun. Also, quick-thinking tear gas. Lieutenant Murray called tear gas in on his own position. New choppers to drop tear gas. Some of the men had gas masks. Some didn’t. A lot of the gas masks didn’t work. There’s one account where a Marine put on a gas mask, and he’s crying and blubbering because of the— the tear gas in his face, and it didn’t work. Father Capodanno gave his gas mask to another Marine during all this. So they got off the knoll by tenacity, leadership, cool under pressure, and cooperation between all of the different elements, meaning tactically and strategically, calling in the air power, the tear gas. That’s what did it. But bottom line, it was the tenacity of the young Marines doing their job as they were trained, even if maybe not trained as a unit. And that’s what got them home.
SPEAKER 05 :
Wow. Okay, Doyle Glass, thank you so much. And the book is Swift Sword, The True Story of the Marines of Mike 3-5 in Vietnam for September 1967. Doyle Glass, I have to say thank you for writing this book. This is so important and would be a great gift and a great book to have on your shelf at home regarding our history. Doyle Glass, thank you so much.
SPEAKER 09 :
Thank you, Kim, and thank you for what you do, because if you don’t tell these stories, they’re not heard. So thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, it’s my honor, as I know it’s your honor as well. And my friends, it is very clear that we stand on the shoulders of giants. So God bless you, and God bless America.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you for listening to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure to tune in again next Sunday, 3 to 4 p.m. here on KLZ 560 and KLZ 100.7.
SPEAKER 07 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
